A coffee filter is placed in the pipe such that after digestion, the kettle may be lifted and angled such that the spout is vertical and the solution pours through the spout, through the pipe, and through the coffee filter
At that rate, I will not be able to sustain enough pressure on the water to keep it in liquid state at the high temperatures required, due to the fact that the steam will escape through these leaks and reduce the pressure.
There are sealants specifically for these galvanized steel pipe fittings, but they are not rated for the temperatures and pressures I expect (150ºC-210ºC and around 35 atm, which is about 500 psi).
Solution will be so alkaline that it will probably easily eat through your coffee filter. But that's the least of your problems.Hm... any suggestions for a more stable filter?
AFAICT you don't need high pressures for that process, but even then playing with hot, concentrated NaOH is a very dangerous idea.Well, water boils at 100ºC, and since higher temperatures are required, at atmospheric pressure it would all boil away before the reactions could take place. I figured if I heated up the solution in a sealed container, some of the water would boil, turning into steam that would expand as the temperature increases, increasing pressure. I figured the increased pressure would allow me to retain some of the water as a liquid, giving me my hot NaOH solution. I don't think it would really reach 35 atm, that was more of a max figure that I found searching through industry websites (the specific source said this approximate pressure occurred around 240ºC, and due to various limitations I only intended to reach around 200ºC).
Sorry to say that, but looks like your enthusiasm pushes you outside of the boundaries of your knowledge, thats very dangerous combination.Exactly! That's why I came here asking for pointers on how to acquire the necessary knowledge. ;D
Your teakettle is not rated for 35 atm. What you are basically planning to do is a homemade bomb, that will explode splashing everything around with hot caustic solution of NaOH. This is an interesting, but painfull aproach to suicide.Oh dear.
Google boiling point eleveation. What will be the concentration of your NaOH?
I highly advise you find something safer to entertain yourself with before you kill yourself in an excruciatingly painful way. I don't think you understand. Hot, concentrated NaOH solution will rape your tissue to the bone. I'd be less worried about ever having sex and more worried about lucking out and living if that tea kettle explodes.
Aluminium oxide, also known as alumina, is the main component of bauxite, the principal ore of aluminium. The largest manufacturers in the world of alumina are Alcoa, Alcan and Rusal.[citation needed] Companies which specialise in the production of speciality aluminium oxides and aluminium hydroxides include Alcan and Almatis. The bauxite ore is made up of impure Al2O3, Fe2O3, and SiO2. Bauxite is purified by the Bayer process:
Al2O3 + 3 H2O + 2 NaOH → 2NaAl(OH)4
The Fe2O3 does not dissolve in the base. The SiO2 dissolves as silicate Si(OH)62-. Upon filtering, Fe2O3 is removed. When the Bayer liquor is cooled, Al(OH)3 precipitates, leaving the silicates in solution. The mixture is then calcined (heated strongly) to give aluminium oxide:[3]
2Al(OH)3 + heat → Al2O3 + 3H2O
The formed Al2O3 is alumina.
3. You said nothing about having any weak acids nearby in the even you manage to spill it on yourself or anywhere else. I always make sure I have baking soda and vinegar nearby.That caught my attention too. He said that he had towels, and I was trying to figure out what exactly he was hoping the towels would do against the hot caustic base...
Hello BlueTheCow,Ah, right. Well, ignore the bayer process part of it. I take full responsibility and am completely self-liable for my actions and so on. Any information I acquire here could be acquired on my own in other ways, etc.
My first comment is ... WOW .. quite unsafe. I need to start this comment with a legal statement: this mechanism and reaction in the manner you are planning is extremely unsafe. Do not perform the test or reactions, please, for your own safety.
From a theoretical perspective, a really inexpensive filter can be created from various cloths ...yep, the kind that you use to clean dishes. Folding the cloth on top of itself, along with putting it on the bottom of an old soup can can form a very good filter. If the material passes through the filter with particles, add a little sand in the bottom of the filter can before pouring your ingredients into it. Finer sand = finer filter.
I'm sorry to be blunt but you are naive. I know this because I was the same way at one point but I learnt quickly and thankfully before I ever seriously hurt myself.I tend to appreciate bluntness for its efficiency (though I tend to not use it much myself because most people are not as understanding as I am). And good for you, not hurting yourself seriously and all!
I know people keep warning you this and that, and you think you have everything good, but you've only been lucky so far. I'm shocked you haven't received chemical burns yet.Well... I've been really careful and such. Even with my shakey hands. Looking at your post though, I really have to say thank you for finally giving some constructive safety arguments (that is, stuff not meant to deter as the others posted, more meant to help; that's nice of you).
Strong bases HURT... A LOTTTT. And the pain isn't always instantaneous so quite a bit of damage can be done before you realize it.Yeah, I heard about that soapmaking stuff when I was searching for a supply of NaOH (I finally settled on using Roebic "Crystal Drain Opener" from Home Depot/Lowes, but I'm not sure it's the best solution; I only bought one 908g/2lb bottle, and I won't need more for a while).
I know this from experience making soap the old fashioned way.
I'm glad you said you're using gloves but you missed 4 other important things for safety.I it sounds kinda silly, but I bought a pair of welding gloves to handle the hot reaction chamber (the teakettle, or for now the measuring cup). Whenever I'm near the solution, I guard myself by putting my hands up. They are very large.
1. Lab coats aren't just for good looks. If someone wearing a lab coat spilled chemicals on themselves, odds are it'd wind up on their lab coat. They can quickly yank of the lab coat and separate it from themselves preventing chemical burns. I guess an apron that covers your full front may act as a stand in.
2. Maybe I missed something, but something like this REALLY REALLY needs goggles at the very least. You won't be able to do too much chemistry if your blind or your vision is really blurry. Eye damage is permanent.Yeppers, definitely. That's one thing I was extremely concerned about. I have a pair of impact and chemical protecting goggles. I don't have a faceshield yet, but I'll make sure I get one before I increase the size of my experiments from the measuring cup reaction chamber to the teakettle.
You actually should have a face shield on along with the goggles.
3. You said nothing about having any weak acids nearby in the even you manage to spill it on yourself or anywhere else. I always make sure I have baking soda and vinegar nearby.Does HCl count? No...? :o Oh dear. I'll get some baking soda before I do another trial as well. I'm not sure about the vinegar; if you have baking soda, why do you need the vinegar as well?
That caught my attention too. He said that he had towels, and I was trying to figure out what exactly he was hoping the towels would do against the hot caustic base...Well, basically, I'm using such small amounts at the moment, that a big towel absorbed and contained everything (when it spilled over as I mentioned in a previous post). It had some (what looked like) temperature burns, and of course I am not reusing that towel for anything as it contains the mixture, but it didn't ignite or get eaten through by the hot caustic mixture... not exactly a standard solution, but it took care of the mess (and further cleaning of the table took care of the residue, as far as I can tell). So... I'm for keeping the towels nearby, just in case.
4. You've said nothing about having good ventilation. It doesn't take much to be overwhelmed by fumes. Also just throwing open a window and calling it good doesn't always work. Trust me I figured that one out when I through open my bathroom window and then poured bleach into my bathtub. Within a few minutes my eyes were very irritated and it was difficult to breathe.Hm... well, it is right next to a wide open window; the table is literally sitting along the window... And along with the goggles I wear one of those 3M respirator masks. Further than that, I'm not sure what I would do... place a fan on one side of the experiment and the window on the other, and have the fan blow across the experiment and out the window? Or what?
5. (I know I said 4 things) I do hope you aren't using things that you use to cook with! Never mix labware and cookware. Do yourself and family a favor and invest in some Pyrex beakers, flasks, test tubes, etc. [u=http://www.unitednuclear.com/]United Nuclear[/u] has a lot of good and in my opinion fairly priced lab equipment and glassware for the lab.Heh, of course not. All the cookware that I hijacked from my mum, I told her I would keep (I only took 1 steel measuring cup and a plastic teaspoon, which she has plenty more of; I'm planning on replacing them anyway, of course). All the rest of the stuff, I've either bought from Wal-mart, Home Depot, Lowes, or acquired from my (old) high school chemistry lab kit (it had some test tubes, a graduated cylinder, a spring scale and some other stuff).
And no I'm not just some adult that is telling you what to do, I'm only 17, a teenager like you.I don't remember mentioning I was a teenager... Is it that obvious? Maybe it was the really old posts from when I was distraught (my first thread etc).
So please just take the safety precautions we've all told you. Not just for you, but for everyone you live with, and trust people when they say what you're doing is dangerous. Just because you haven't had an accident yet, doesn't mean what you're doing is safe.Right, it's not safe. And I have had accidents, I've just managed them properly. I will take the safety precautions, but I will not, of course, desist (that would be against my values).
Good luck with experiment. Maybe I'll do the same one you're doing now sometime over the summer.Hehe, cool. If you need any information about the specifics, lemme know (I went through a lot of information finding the specifics I needed; then again, as my experiments are part of a larger project, you may not need to go through as much stuff). Or just ask on the forums and if I'm there, I'll reply.
Just wanted to say until you get the faceshield, the goggles you are talking about are they "glasses" or "goggles", the ones that have a elastic band around the back of the head. I would recommend those if you have the glasses instead.They are goggles with the elastic band around the head. Sides, top, bottom, and frontal coverage of the eyes (basically, fully covering my eyes).
Hm... I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. Would you cut a hole in the bottom of the can and flow water through? Or what? Are you talking about a sand filter as described here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_filter? As I said, I'm not entirely sure I understand this (it's not described very well on wikipedia at the moment).
Also, a NaOH solution dissolves SiO2/silica/sand, especially in my case. Would there perhaps be some alternative to using sand? Or is the sand not entirely necessary for what you described?
Lastly, do you have an idea of what sizes of particles would be filtered out? As far as I know, I need most of the particles size 0.5-1.0 microns (diameter I believe) and up filtered out. It might still work with less fine filtering, but I'm not entirely sure.
Hello BlueTheCow,
[snippet snipped]
I hope this helps visualize a filter.
Sincerely,
Eugene
In most cases pump just speeds the filtration. No pump - it still goes, just slowly. Remember that pressure can accidentally squeeze your liquid into any direction, that's not what you want.
Q. Why is my flow rate low? Little or no liquid is seen to pass through the membrane, what could be the problem?
A. There could be a number of things going on to restrict the flow through the membrane.
[first part removed to condense post]
Another thing to consider is if the liquid is being properly prefiltered. With such small pore sizes, 0.05-0.01, you need to filter in a step down manner so as not to plug the pores. Step down means a series of filters with decreasing pore sizes. This can even happen with DI water, bacteria or other particles can be introduced to the process and cause problems with blinding or plugging the filter.
Q. What membrane has been used to prevent water vapor from passing, but would allow regular air to pass?
A. The common membranes used for gas/air filtration are our hydrophobic Polypropylene and PTFE Membranes. They both inhibit the flow of water vapors (hydrophilic) while allowing regular air molecules (such as oxygen) to pass.
For the PTFE membrane the water intrusion pressure (which is inversely related to pore size) is greatest with the smaller sizes:
Water Intrusion of PTFE
Pore Size (um) Water Intrusion Pressure (psi) 0.2 40 0.45 20 1.0 7 3.0 2 5.0 1