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Specialty Chemistry Forums => Nuclear Chemistry and Radiochemistry Forum => Topic started by: WARLORDTF on June 13, 2008, 12:33:49 PM

Title: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: WARLORDTF on June 13, 2008, 12:33:49 PM
 I know Deuterium is and isotope of hydrogen and it occurs naturally in 1/3200 parts of H20
Can you make Deuterium, Can deuterium ions bond with tritium and hydrogen particles.

P.s. ive asked this question as part of a project for advanced chemistry course.
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: Borek on June 13, 2008, 12:52:31 PM
Explain "make". What are starting materials.
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: Ipodlover on July 12, 2008, 02:38:29 PM
One of every 6500 Hydrogens is deuterium, that is a hydrogen atom with 1 neutron, 1 proton. So deuterium is very rare, but you can most definetely "make it".

You don't actually make it because its already made, but you can separate the deuterium from the regular hydrogen, once process is by water electrolysis.

You get say 10 gallons of water, you make electrolysis until you have say 1 liter left, because deuterium is heavier (my speculation) you end up with all the heavy water in the 1 liter, you do it again, again you have all the heavy water, again, again, again, again, and at one point you will start to actually hydrolize the heavy water rather than the regular water, when you do this you will get pure deuterium.

Note that you will get very little deuterium from this water, you will need thousands of liters of water to make decent amounts of deuterium.

I'm sure there is other processes, but this is the one you can make at home, will take you a long time (and energy) to get a decent amount though. 

Take a look here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_gAH3G7w4o
This guy explains it very well.
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: billnotgatez on July 13, 2008, 05:25:04 AM
It is my guess that the deuterium will act the same as the hydrogen gas and you will not get heavy water.

The centrifuge process might have some luck.

I think you will find that discussion somewhere in this forum.

There is some indication that an industrial process uses the electrolysis so Let me know if you actually get heavy water from this home process.
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: Borek on July 13, 2008, 05:53:26 AM
Quote from: billnotgatez on July 13, 2008, 05:25:04 AM
It is my guess that the deuterium will act the same as the hydrogen gas and you will not get heavy water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_heavy_water_sabotage
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: vmelkon on February 06, 2009, 12:39:11 PM
Quote from: billnotgatez on July 13, 2008, 05:25:04 AM
It is my guess that the deuterium will act the same as the hydrogen gas and you will not get heavy water.

huh?
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: Fleaker on February 07, 2009, 04:59:11 PM
Very smart correlation Borek!

I once read a book called Attack on Telemark about the sabotage done by the Norwegian resistances forces and supported by the British. Supposedly the Nazis were very close to obtaining enough D2O to make a function pile.


Indeed, heavy water is isolated by electrolysis.

Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: Fleaker on February 08, 2009, 03:43:40 PM
Learn something new everyday!

Thanks for teaching me that Argos; I can only assume that this process is much less energy/time intensive than the cascading electrolytic method.


D2O is still way too expensive though!
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: ARGOS++ on May 05, 2009, 07:23:49 PM
                             Copy of the lost replay No. 7

Dear Fleaker;

But remember that today heavy water is made by Girdler Sulfide (GS) process and fractionating distillation because the difference of Boiling points:   BP D2O  = 101.4°C   BP H2O = 99.97°C
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/heavy.htm


Good Luck!
                    ARGOS++
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: DocDingwall on May 08, 2009, 03:26:39 PM
Heavy water (D2O) used to be made on an industrial scale in Ontario by the chemical exchange with and fractionation of H2S/D2S.  The heavy water is used as the neutron moderator in CANDU (CANadian Deuterium/Uranium) reactors.  I believe the plants are long gone so either they get it from somewhere else or they have all they need. 
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: crnobijeli13 on November 15, 2010, 05:12:36 AM
Isn't it possible just to radiate regular water to get D2O then just extract the deuterium ???
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: gippgig on November 15, 2010, 05:48:06 PM
Possible, yes. Practical, no. Nuclear transmutation is slow and expensive (and hydrogen has a fairly small neutron capture cross-section).
Out of idle curiosity, does anyone know if the cooling water from nuclear plants is significantly enriched in D?
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: crnobijeli13 on November 30, 2010, 12:24:16 PM
That would be logical...
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: ki98mama on October 17, 2011, 04:52:33 AM
Quote from: gippgig on November 15, 2010, 05:48:06 PM
Possible, yes. Practical, no. Nuclear transmutation is slow and expensive (and hydrogen has a fairly small neutron capture cross-section).
Out of idle curiosity, does anyone know if the cooling water from nuclear plants is significantly enriched in D?

The little I do know is that CANDU reactors coolant need to be detritiated, but I believe tha major sources of tritium is from fuel and secondary neutron sources.
Light water reactors do not suffer from significant deuterium enrichment (as far as I know) for several reasons:
1. It would be really bad for reactivity control purposes.
2. PWR's continiously bleed coolant in order to dilute the chemical shim, the water usually end up in the plant discharge, after purification of course. (I don't know enough of BWR's but I am sure some water is bled off to sustain water quality).
3. Thermal neutron capture cross section for hydrogen is 0.3326 barns (not the lowest but in the top 15).
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: Enthalpy on May 03, 2012, 06:40:55 PM
Quote from: gippgig on November 15, 2010, 05:48:06 PM
...if the cooling water from nuclear plants is significantly enriched in D?
Insignificantly, even if compared with the small amount of deuterium in natural water. That's why deuterium is extracted from lake water.
Qualitative reason: a PWR contains many more moles of hydrogen than uranium (and even many more tons), of which few % are 235U, but hydrogen absorbs far less than one neutron per fission - or the reactor couldn't work. We're comparing 0.3 barn to hundreds of barns.
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: Enthalpy on May 03, 2012, 06:45:05 PM
Quote from: ki98mama on October 17, 2011, 04:52:33 AM
...CANDU reactors coolant need to be detritiated...
CANDU reactors are the main source of tritium worldwide, the only one used presently - and they can't possibly suffice to sustain the needs of D-T fusion reactors if these get feasible some day.
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: vmelkon on May 06, 2012, 10:26:05 AM
Instead of D-T fusion, some are betting on D-He3 for fusion power plants.

They want to mine Helium 3 from the surface rocks of the moon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2xChmfLlMo

The reaction would be :
D + Helium 3 => Helium 4 + p
and the proton could easily be stopped since it is a charged particle.

Besides the moon, I think there was some other video that talked about getting helium 3 from other planets in our system.

But I guess the next step would be thorium rather than helium 3 since there is plenty of it on our planet.
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: Enthalpy on May 06, 2012, 02:39:29 PM
Quote from: vmelkon on May 06, 2012, 10:26:05 AM
Instead of D-T fusion, some are betting on D-He3 for fusion power plants. They want to mine Helium 3 from the surface rocks of the moon...
Which are two unrealistic conditions on one single proposal.

D-3He is much more difficult than D-D which is much more difficult than D-T which is very far from practical use. As intuition should shout, nearing one proton to two others (helium) needs more heat than one proton to one other.

Mining anything on the Moon is obviously more expensive than renewable energy.
Title: Re: How To Make Deuterium??
Post by: Enthalpy on May 06, 2012, 02:54:45 PM
Quote from: vmelkon on May 06, 2012, 10:26:05 AM
...I guess the next step would be thorium...since there is plenty of it on our planet.
No thorium reactor works up to now, despite India investing much research in it.

All proposals, including Rubbia's one, need to mix some plutonium with the thorium, and the 233U they breed doesn't replace Pu to start the reactor. Which, if you put proper figures, means 10 uranium reactors for 1 thorium reactor. In other words, they'd make insignificant use of the thorium deposits.

Details there http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=2026

As an alternative, existing PWR can burn Pu+Th instead of U. It's done in Russia and planned elsewhere. Same result for cheaper.