[limpet chicken]

I have been putting a little thought into directed energy weapons of late, and came up with something.

What about building a small-ish oxygen/iodine laser, they use the reaction between a a solution of H2O2 basified with KOH and chlorine gas to generate a metastable singlet oxygen species, which is pumped with gaseous iodine as a lasing medium.

I was thinking, could this be done small enough to be built into a pistol grip, or maybe a rifle design? perhaps the chemical fuel could be sealed into one, or several shot ammunition cartridges which could be inserted into the weapon the same way conventional weapons house the cartridges.

If anyone could find any decent schematics for oxygen/iodine COIL lasers I would be grateful.

 

[Corvettaholic]

I thought of making a laser rifle once upon a time. I was going to do something really simple, like use an old HeNe tube. Sure it'd be harmless, but just for proof of concept. The huge problem is going to be POWER. Carrying enough batteries would be too freaking heavy, nor can you walk around plugged into the wall. I think the US airforce now has a B-52 with a COIL laser in it to shoot down ballistic missiles. They did some testing on the ground, and this thing could easily punch out missiles. Problem is, the power supply is the size of 3 pickup trucks!

[limpet chicken]

I am also working on something that might be a little more practical, I think I might wait until I have the opportunity for proof of concept and built a very simple prototype, its basically a plasma rifle, and I am going to try building the plasma generator and running it off mains power first.

Its going to have a plasma generator using an electric arc, its going to be built using a clay pot or cheap ass stuff first just for proof of concept.

It generates a magnetic field by itself, to propel the plasma, but I am thinking, what about a gauss-rifle adaptation to the device as well, to accelerate the plasma bolt to a very high speed? Like a similar concept to a discarding sabot armor piercing round, the s#*$ is first fired on its own, and then accelerated even further

Apparently the generator itself DOES work, and has been tested, using a car starter coil to boost power gives a range of ten feet or so, I am thinking, first of all, an injection system providing some sort of highly ionisable medium, such as a deuterium halide, and instead of a car starter coil, a battery of say 10 seperate 20 KV capacitors, so instead of shooting a plasma bolt ten feet at a fast speed, it blasts it a good couple of hundred meters at an INSANE speed.

And considering the original test this guy built was done in a flower pot, quite possibly I could adapt it to a really powerful rifle or maybe even a mounted heavy cannon

[Corvettaholic]

I thought about building a plasma gun, but I ran into some roadblocks. If you want to propel the plasma using magnetics, my question is if by heating the crap out of something, will it respond to a magnetic field? I mean, lets say you use plain ol atmosphere or a chunk of a car... how will the properties change once it becomes a plasma? Making it a plasma should be easy enough with a solid arc, but it'd be a good idea to use a solid with a low(er) boiling point. You're gonna end up caking whatever you use on the electrodes, or burning off the electrodes entirely. Also going to need a housing to contain it, and I don't think concrete will work very well. Tungsten maybe, but thats friggin expensive. Problem with concrete is that the water trapped inside (there always is some, however small the pockets are) might cause the casing to explode. Although cool, that will most likely result in loss of body parts. Another thing about the capacitors, if you can find 20KV caps for a good price, LET ME KNOW! Those things are insanely expensive if you want them to have any decent capacitance. Maybe go with a crapload of low-voltage (24V) high farad caps? Run them all in parallel until you amass something like 100 farads, then dump that for power. Car audio caps should work great, and you can get them on clearance specials.

Do you have a website where some dude built something like this?

[limpet chicken]

http://fusor.net/board/view.php?bn=fusor_ionguns&key=1075675637,

he posted a powerpoint file, it looks pretty crude, but simple.

[Corvettaholic]

Oh its project time! I happen to have a ceramic vase that contains a cactus, just need to move my pet cactus into the side yard, in the dirt, and I have a ceramic jar! The idea seems pretty simple:

1) Load up a cap that can handle 20kV
2) Discharge said cap through 2 carbon electrodes
3) At the SAME time, energize the electromagnet sitting 1/2" underneath where the arc should be
4) Plasma goes sailing

This is of course using plain atmosphere for the plasma, and he did mention some other stuff to use. So lets say you fill the bottom of this jar with the lithium chloride, or whatever he said. If you discharge 20kV through those 2 electrodes, which are now immersed, would you still get a plasma?

Also, did he address how to regulate the current going through the thing? How much power to use for the electromagnet? Whats the deal with spark coil from a car anyway? And, what happens if you shoot this horizontally? Is there any kind of power supply that you need, or just have some charged caps laying around?

[limpet chicken]

I will have to buy EVERYTHING, other than maybe bits I can scrounge from whatever electronic bits and  pieces I can thrown out on junkyards and stuff, although there is a BIG junkyard nearby where I live where I get all my sulfuric acid from (from car batteries, needs boiling to concentrate ) and partially used Li batteries and such.

I am not totally sure about the details such as electromagnet power and such, that would have to be worked upon by trial and error really, and it will be essential that the plasma generator can fire in a horizontal direction, at least when I make the combat-optimised model, but I don't really see why it wouldn't.

I read about the idea of introducing an alkali metal salt through a wick-system into the arc, I had a somewhat more practical idea, introducing an ionisable gas via some sort of pressurised injection system, to act as the medium to form the plasma, it would certainly avoid fouling the electrodes to a greater degree than a solid in solution as the ionisation fuel.

The idea of the car spark coil, would be to set up a continuous arc, commence heating of the ionisation medium, and THEN blast the capacitor bank through the already formed arc, hopefully leading to a more efficient plasma discharge (and hence, either longer range, or the plasma bolt having more destructive power.


I wonder even, what if a mixture of deuterium and tritium (from gun sights maybe ) were used? perhaps that would even set up a fusion reaction, although I know little about that, I know adding tritium to a deuterium fuel lowers the temperature at which fusion occurs considerably, what about it? building a DIY fusion cannon

[Corvettaholic]

OK, so let me make sure I got the theory right. You set up a pilot arc by running continuous 12V power through a car spark coil, sending the one output wire from the coil to electrode number 1. Arc will then jump to electrode 2, and which point it goes where? You need a ground, and I don't want to be that ground. Would the gun housing work as a ground for that, or would you need to run a wire into the dirt?

So we have a pilot arc, nothing fancy here! There is a monster diode between the spark coil and electrode number 1. This is because once you discharge the cap to electrode number 1, you don't want that juice going bassackwards into the spark coil. So now that pilot arc gets a lot bigger and more powerful. Bam, atmosphere (or whatever) flashes into a plasma. So you have a plasma just chilling there. How to eject it? Obviously this guy says have an electromagnet underneath will do the trick. Now do you energize this electromagnet during the pilot arc phase, or at the same time you generate the plasma? I figure if you pull the trigger and it goes to a timing circuit which dumps a 2nd cap through the electromagnet a couple milliseconds before the main electrodes, you will have that magnetic field up only as long as necessary. Once the 2nd cap fully discharges, the magnetic field should collapse, and by using cap discharge as opposed to wall outlet power, you can get a monster field! Should give more distance.

I figure the bigger the primary cap for the arc, the more plasma you'll get. The bigger the electromagnet cap, the more distance. Damage vs distance. As for a better ionizing medium than atmosphere, I guess the lithium chloride should work. Now he says to use an aqueous solution, but I think your gas idea is a good one! Does this solution exist as gas at normal atmospheric conditons? I don't think so. What about using an automotive fuel injector (or a simple nozzle) to spray some of this crap in the loading chamber before you fire? It'll be floating around for a bit, and hopefully won't leak out the barrel. How stable is this solution?

Here's an idea for a "magazine" for multiple shots. Have a canister which you can plug into the gun. Inside said canister is your ionizing solution, and the gun will inject a portion of that in there per shot. Also in the cannister is a nicely charged pair of caps that are used to fire the gun. The gun won't need to have any built in caps that way, thereby saving weight. Do you want to lug this heavy thing around? Have you looked into getting this ionizing solution? I think you could probably order it off fischer chemicals. "Ammo" would be dictated by how much solution is available along with how much charge those caps have. With minitariaztion comes price though!

[limpet chicken]

I like your idea, I thought of something along the lines of an ammo clip, but that I think would be a good idea, pre-built and sealed pressurised ammo cartridges, with the caps connected inside, that way, the charge of the weapon wouldn't be so severely limited integrally, only limit would be how many cartridges you could carry (and how many things you wanted vaporised of course )


I had another idea too, would magnetic compression of the plasma be possible? I mean, using a powerful megnetic field to sort of collapse in on itself, compressing the plasma bolt and making it more dense, and probably make it hurt more, first, create plasma with initial starter arc, create the containment field then fire the second cap to give power to the plasma bolt, then, collapse the magnetic containment field to make the plasma dense as hell, then the EM for the propulsion would kick in and fire the now denser plasma bolt and fry some stuff to hell

I actually don't like the idea of an aqueous solution as the ionisation medium, I think something like either deuterium, or deuterium/tritium mix </grins> would be preferable, imagine, if you will, the D or D/T mix sealed into a canister, liquified under pressure, or even a smaller amount as gas under its own pressure, in something like a hairspray canister.

It could be done, perhaps, using something like deuterated/tritiated sodium hydroxide and aluminium to generate the gases, and store in pressurised canisters, maybe even stored in something like a small propane cylinder on the back, flame-thrower style, or small gass bottles that plug into the gun itself, like those gas canisters used in blow torches.

[Corvettaholic]

Well if dumping a straight up aqueous solution in the chamber isn't your style, why not still keep the solution but inject via spray bottle nozzle? Much like a fuel injector, just use a ceramic tip so it doesn't melt off. Isn't deuterium hard to get a hold of? And I KNOW tritium is really friggin hard to get in any decent quantity. Sure you can scrape if off a bunch of gun sights, but that'll take FOREVER, and a lot of gun sights.

I really like the idea of compressing the plasma, but I don't think you can do it by collapsing the field. The 2nd field you have is the propulsion field, so you only engage that once you want to fire. The primary field is a result of the arc and the plasma. The plasma is generating that field, otherwise the propulsion magnet wouldn't work. If you want to compress it, I think you'd need magnets all around the plasma, set it up like the 2nd nuclear bomb, fatboy. They'd all need to be evenly spaced and caps discharged simultaneously, and they would all repel the plasma from all angles back into itself. The minute you drop the field though... I really don't know what would happen. Balloon outwards and destroy the gun? Stay compressed? Oh my!

This past thanksgiving weekend I've actually gone fishing for parts. I'm gonna grab the carbon electrodes from some D-cell batteries I have laying around, and I got plenty of extra cable. Just need caps and a ceramic pot. I can grab a spark coil from a junkyard for 5 bucks.

[limpet chicken]

I don't think the gun could explode, I think there should be a safety release valve of some sort, to shut off the containment field in case of emergency/potential self-vaporisation

If the plasma WERE to expand suddenly, I think a wide muzzle and barrel, cannon style would be an advantage, so it could dissipate quickly out of the end rather than in your face .

I was thinking, when I get round to starting work on the gun, to have a heavy cannon design, handles/trigger switches/copntrols etc on the top of the weapon, sort of like a minigun with a grip on the top, and a curving handle with the trigger upwards on the back end, wide barrel, and most of the electronics in the middle, on the underside of the gun so as to balance out weight.

I believe tritium can be synthesised by neutron bombardment of 6Li.

6Li is a nonradioactive isotope of lithium, that constitutes aproximatly 7.59% of naturally occuring lithium. Perhaps a neutron chamber could be constructed out of a 2L coke bottle, airless, with strips of Li foil inside and bombarded with neutrons, tritium is formed thusly, with an admixture of some helium isotope which could be vented. Seperation would be easy given that helium doesn't react, forming maybe tritium oxide, or chloride/bromide.

Just a shot in the dark there, no so sure it would work.

[Corvettaholic]

As far as synthesizing your own tritium, good luck. I remember reading that its made in a nuclear reactor, and I already sold mine for a couple bucks. Did you ever read the story about the radioactive boyscout? The article claims he made his own neutron emitter by putting americerium (from a smoke detector) in a lead box, with a pin hole in it. Cover pin hole with aluminum foil, and there you go! I don't know the  chemistry behind it, or if it even works.

The thing with a plasma cannon is weight. We NEED a ceramic barrel, cause I don't think straight up steel will handle the heat. How will extreme heating effect the ceramic I wonder? And where do you get a ceramic pipe? I think some plumbing companies have the stuff, or you can make a wooden mold and make your own with concrete. I'm really leery about using concrete due to trapped water, and with a ton of heat it can flash to steam. Bad news if its sealed in the concrete.

As far as the electrodes, they have to start really close together. For best results (from what I gathered from the article) is to slowly pull them apart AFTER the arc has started. Pull it apart to something like a couple inches, or as far as that arc will go being only powered by that spark coil. I'm also unsure of how much stress that spark coil can handle without melting. Automotive spark coils aren't designed to run continuously. Figure for the electrodes, mount them in a housing and use a stepper motor to slowly pull the electrodes apart to a predetermined distance. Once the distance is achieved, light up a LED on the back of the gun signalling its ready for you to pull the trigger to dump the caps. Once trigger is pulled, have a quarter second delay so that the plasma generating cap dumps first, THEN the propulsion cap. The 2 electrodes (I think) need to spaced 180 degrees from each other. Have them sticking out like ears or something. By watching electrode movement, you can see what phase of firing the gun is in.

Another thing I'm wondering about, the guy said that sometimes the electrodes would blow out of the barrel after discharging the cap. I guess this is from plasma formation and some resulting pressure? If the electrodes are going to mounted in a movable housing, this thing needs to be anchored really, really good. I guess they used a curtain rod or something to hold it in. Not sure how that works though. I wish there were more pictures!

[jdurg]

With generating tritium in a coke bottle, you have to remember a few things.  Tritium is less dense than helium, so when you vent out the helium you'll probably vent out your tritium as well.  If you wanted to convert it to tritium oxide, you'd need to combine it with oxygen.  Having gaseous oxygen in a contained bottle with lithium metal is a VERY bad idea.  You would also need some isotopically pure lithium to get a good yield out of this, and you'd want to make sure that no isotopic exchanges happen with any hydrogen containing chemical in the container.  (Since some of your tritium may exchange places with the hydrogen in there already).  

[Corvettaholic]

I just ran into the PERFECT way to get a lot more power with less of a power supply. Use a Marx generator!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electricstuff/marxgen.htm

Basically, I could see sticking the stack lengthwise along the barrel, and as the spark gaps begin firing, you'd get the neat effect of seeing the barrel light up. Once the top stage hits, funnel the discharge through a heavily heatsinked and beefy transformer to drop it from 250KV to about 15KV and into the plasma producing arc path. This will drastically increase the amount of amperage we have to work with.

After doing some fishing around the internet, I've pretty much come up with that with more voltage, we get a longer spark (or arc since it'll be continuous) and with more amperage we get a fatter arc. I was thinking then we focus more on amperage after we get the arc started so we can generate more plasma. More amperage also applies to our propulsion system = much stronger field.

[limpet chicken]

About the idea for a concrete housing for insulation, I agree, I think at those voltages it would instantly explode. I reccomend wiring the trigger switches up and testing for current running through the gun housing first, from a safe distance, turret style, before using it as a man portable weapon.

I LOVE the idea of using marx generators, why not use another powerful marx generator, maybe running about 100KV to proviude the sudden pulse to produce the accelerating magnetic field too, I imagine the speeds attained by the plasma would be horrendously fast to say the least.

I think insulation would be the largest problem short of power requirements to overcome, the voltages involved could cause some very serious problems (read: blasting youself to ashes) if anything went wrong