April 25, 2024, 12:44:45 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Identification of unknown substances  (Read 9835 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline THC

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 132
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-6
Identification of unknown substances
« on: January 07, 2008, 11:47:04 AM »
I have to study for a practical test. In the experiments, we have to identify 10-15 different unknown substances by mixing them with other chemicals. To identify them correctly, I have to know general things such as solubility of inorganic salts, their colors, whether they're acids/bases and so on. We're not allowed any help (books etc.) in the lab, so I would be grateful if you could point me to a book, link, whatever, so I'll have a chance of passing this test. It's for the national chemistry olympics, if I pass this test and a couple of others, I might advance to IChO ;-)

Thank you.


Offline Alpha-Omega

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 693
  • Mole Snacks: +360/-231
  • Gender: Female
  • Physical Inorganic Chemist
Re: Identification of unknown substances
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2008, 12:25:22 PM »
Here is a link to "Rules for Learning the Solubility of Ionic Compounds in Water"

http://www.ausetute.com.au/solrules.html

When you are at this link check the drop down menu at the top for additional tutorials.

See the attached schemes for cations and anions.  I attached the pdf so you can print it out.


Offline THC

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 132
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-6
Re: Identification of unknown substances
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2008, 12:44:19 PM »
Thank you so much! That's exactly what I am looking for!

Well, I guess I just have to memorise it somehow. I would probably help to try it out in the lab beforehand, but unfortunately I don't have that option.

Anyways, Alpha-Omega's links and documents covers it all pretty good, but I'm still open for suggestions and advice as how to remember the rules etc.

Thanks again :-)

« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 10:44:51 AM by Arkcon »

Offline Kryolith

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Mole Snacks: +19/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Identification of unknown substances
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2008, 03:22:11 PM »
Well the link posted gives a guideline but should not be taken too serious.
For example Li+ClO4- and K+(BPh4)- are not soluable, so the reactions can be used as a detection for the ions.
A further rule of thumb is the HSAB-concept: the combination of hard acids+hard bases / soft acids+soft bases are insoluable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSAB_theory

As if you're specially interested in analyzing an unknown substance, a book about qualitative inorganic analysis would help you. Though many users here absolved a qualitative inorganic lab course, you'll probably get a book recommendation. I don't know any books in English, sorry.

Offline Alpha-Omega

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 693
  • Mole Snacks: +360/-231
  • Gender: Female
  • Physical Inorganic Chemist
Re: Identification of unknown substances
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2008, 06:03:10 PM »
Kryolith is correct there are hundreds of General Chemistry Chemistry Text Books that have all the  which these cations and anions ar3e separated.

That would be your best resource. You had mentioned being hindered by not being able to use books...just thought the large list would help you commit things to memory...

Offline THC

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 132
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-6
Re: Identification of unknown substances
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2008, 12:44:28 AM »
Here is a link to "Rules for Learning the Solubility of Ionic Compounds in Water"

http://www.ausetute.com.au/solrules.html

When you are at this link check the drop down menu at the top for additional tutorials.

See the attached schemes for cations and anions.  I attached the pdf so you can print it out.



So I tried to take a look at the Anion Analysis (first document) you uploaded and I have a couple of questions.

1) SO4^(2-)/PO4^(3-).
How do I distinguish between these two? In the document, the process of identifying phosphate is reversed, so you start out with H2PO4 and end with Ba3(PO4)2, but that won't help be if I have a unknown solution of (example) Na3PO4?

2) What does ppt and pttn stand for?

3) Why do I have to add HNO3 before the AgNO3 in the Cl-/I- solutions? Also, after I've added the AgNO3, do if have to do the steps below ("Wash ppt with water. Add 1 mL water to ppt, add 3 drops 6 M NH3 and 5 drops 0.1 M AgNO3. Agigate well.")

Phew, that was a lot of question. I'm going to the library today to find an inorg. chemistry book, but still, I would be grateful is somebody could answer my question. I don't know if my local library have that kind of books, it's relatively small and the amount of English/Danish chemistry books is limited.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 09:16:14 AM by Arkcon »

Offline THC

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 132
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-6
Re: Identification of unknown substances
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2008, 12:50:15 AM »
Well the link posted gives a guideline but should not be taken too serious.
For example Li+ClO4- and K+(BPh4)- are not soluable, so the reactions can be used as a detection for the ions.
A further rule of thumb is the HSAB-concept: the combination of hard acids+hard bases / soft acids+soft bases are insoluable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSAB_theory

As if you're specially interested in analyzing an unknown substance, a book about qualitative inorganic analysis would help you. Though many users here absolved a qualitative inorganic lab course, you'll probably get a book recommendation. I don't know any books in English, sorry.

Thanks, interesting link, but why is ions like Li+ and Ti^4+ called acids?
Also, I think the chemicals are limited - will probably not deal with Hg2^2+ :)

Offline Alpha-Omega

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 693
  • Mole Snacks: +360/-231
  • Gender: Female
  • Physical Inorganic Chemist
Re: Identification of unknown substances
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2008, 01:24:32 AM »
OK if you have that many questions...YES your very best bet is to go thru the low charts/schemes for the separations as they are outlined in a General Chemistry Text Book.

Usually all the labs are located in the back of the text and all those questions are explined and outlined for you in the text.

Zumdahl is a good one...

Brown, LeMay, Bursten

Whitten, Davis and Peck is an excellent choice...

Sponsored Links