Chemical Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Sponsored links

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: anything besides cocaine that could possibly trigger the Benzoylecgonine?  (Read 107730 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

iceprincess12108

  • Guest

I am looking for anything besides cocaine that could possibly trigger the release of the metabolite Benzoylecgonine.  If you have any suggestions or links to information that describes this please let me know.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2005, 06:05:31 AM by Mitch »
Logged

jdurg

  • Banninator
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Mole Snacks: +106/-21
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1363
  • I am NOT a freak.
Re:Benzoylecgonine
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2005, 05:19:18 AM »

There is absolutely nothing that will result in the creation of benzoylecgonine as a metabolite except for cocaine.  That is the reason why benzoylecgonine is used as the confirming compound under investigation in a drug test.  The presence of it in a urine or blood sample is 100% proof that the person used a cocaine product according to the law.  The same can be said of 6-monoacetylmorphine and heroin.  It's one of those 'fingerprint' metabolites that cannot be created except by the metabolic breakdown of the parent product.
Logged
"A real fart is beefy, has a density greater than or equal to the air surrounding it, consists

limpet chicken

  • mad scientist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Mole Snacks: +48/-27
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 738
  • Vote Limpet for supreme emperor of the new order
Re:Benzoylecgonine
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2005, 01:56:25 PM »

I am not so sure, what about the 4-halo-tropacocaine series, IIRC 4-fluorotropacocaine has a potency approximately half that of cocaine, The synthesis is I would say, not commonly, but occasionally done, as the starting precursor can be atropine which is rather easily available.

Also, 4-fluorotropacocaine is currently unscheduled, at least in britain, as britain does not have an analogue act per se (aside from the ineffective attempt to create a catch-all clause banning tryptamines and phenethylamines) I have had the pleasure of sampling the stuff myself, and it does indeed have some potency to it, comparable to cocaine itself.

It wouldn't surprise me if it were to produce the same metabolite, or at least, perhaps teh non-fluorinated, halogen substituted tropacocaine analogues were.

There are also some unscheduled cocaine analogues with a phenyl group in the structure, that have up to 60x the potency of cocaine, which may well produce the metabolites....(at this point, a wide grin spreads across Limpet's face ;D)
Logged
The light blinds
So behold darkness as our new light
In our darkness we can see
So with others blindness
We take flight.

jdurg

  • Banninator
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Mole Snacks: +106/-21
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1363
  • I am NOT a freak.
Re:Benzoylecgonine
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2005, 02:22:25 PM »

They still won't produce the same metabolite.  There will be noticeable differences that the GC/MS will EASILY pick out.  What would happen is that as the analogue is broken apart in the MS, the peaks will shift a little bit due to the difference in molecular weight of those fragments.  This will produce a completely different result on the MS.
Logged
"A real fart is beefy, has a density greater than or equal to the air surrounding it, consists

kasnmaz

  • Guest
Re:Benzoylecgonine
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2005, 06:32:43 AM »

I actually have a question I have been trying to figure out something I am reading on a Toxicology Report. Its states 172.22 mg/l of Benzoylecgonine in his Urine. This was my fiance who passed away and I am trying to figire out if this was an insane amount. This test was done the day after he passed and I beleive from what I have understood so far is that postmortem that cocaine will turn into Benzoylecgonine? Can someone help with finding out if he was out of his mind with the amount in his system?
Thanks
K.s
« Last Edit: September 22, 2005, 06:33:51 AM by kasnmaz »
Logged

lordcord

  • Guest
Re:Benzoylecgonine
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2005, 05:17:59 AM »

benzoylecgonine question??
my husbands toxicology report just came back with this substance in it.. does that mean he was doing coke?? or cold he have been doing any sort of coke substance.. for example.... could he have been smoking crack?? etc etc.. thanks for help...lori
Logged

jdurg

  • Banninator
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Mole Snacks: +106/-21
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1363
  • I am NOT a freak.
Re:Benzoylecgonine
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2005, 07:04:43 AM »

Crack is the same thing as cocaine, just in a different form.  The stuff commonly known as 'coke' is cocaine-hydrochloride.  It has a high melting/boiling point but is very soluble in water.  As a result, it is commonly snorted.  Crack cocaine is the same thing as free-base cocaine, it's just that carbon dioxide is trapped into the cyrstal structure making it 'crack' and 'pop' as the substance is heated.  Free-base/crack has a very low melting/boiling point which is why it is smoked and not snorted.  This also allows for a much quicker onsent and a bigger 'rush' for the user.

If benzoylecgonine is found in someone's urine or blood serum, it means that yes, they did have cocaine in their body within the past few days.  (Benzoylecgonine has a half-life in the body of about 6 hours if I recall correctly).  What really matters is the amount.  I'm wondering if the amount posted in kasnmaz' question is a mislabel of the units, because 172.22 mg/L in the urine is a VERY large amount of cocaine.  172.22 nanograms (ng) would seem to be a much better number.  If it's a very tiny trace amount of benzoylecgonine, then it could have come from a multitude of things.  However, if it was large enough to be detected by a simple drug screening, then it definitely does mean that cocaine was used.
Logged
"A real fart is beefy, has a density greater than or equal to the air surrounding it, consists

Pritzie

  • Guest
Re:Benzoylecgonine
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2005, 04:35:03 AM »

Hi, I'm new here and I have a question that may seem easy to you, but I am baffled by it.

Recently, I failed a drug screen (urine test) for cocaine.  However, I am NOT a cocaine user.  Since I didn't believe that I had failed, I went to an independant testing facility and had a Hair Specimen test performed.  Again, it tested positive for cocaine.

BUT... and this had the owner of the company stumped as well as I am, and please treat me like a 3 year old and try and expalin this to me.  While the cocaine tests positive at a level of 300pg/mg, both metabolites are negative those being Benzoylecgonine and Cocaethylene.  His response to the results were and I quote, "This is strange, since you test positive for cocaine in the past 90 days which was the time frame involved in the testing, yet you show no metabolites for the substance."  

As I stated, I am not a user, but!  my son and his girlfriend are crack smokers and although they were told NOT to smoke that crap in my house, I feel with certainty they were behind closed doors.  I have also learned that they would take powder and cook it on spoons into crack with baking soda over my gas stove when I was asleep at night.  Is it possible that I may have come into contact with cocaine by way of inadvertent exposure?  such as?  handling and cleaning utinsils that I found in and around the house that they cooked their crack in?  Could I have come in contact by breathing the same air?  (Keep in mind that their use was huge, like 2,000.00 a day habits)  Is it possible that if they cleaned out those little glass tubes they smoked out of in my ash trays, and I used the ashtrays without cleaing them, that I may have ingested cocaine without realizing it?  Some of these what if's were posed to me by my children that are not drug abusers as to how or why I may have come in contact sufficiently to fail a drug screen.

But it still leads me back to the first and most important question that I am posing.  How come, if I tested positive for cocaine, both in a urine test and then in a hair strand test are their no metabolites present in either case?  I hope someone with actual knowledge by way of education can answer this question for me.

Could someone also explain what this means?

Hair Quantitative Results:
     Cocaine     1899 pg/mg                 is this a high level?  a low level?  what exactly does that mean.  I've googled till my fingers are bleeding trying to get the meanings behind this result.  I would appreciate as much help on this as I can get.

Thanks, and thank you for this forum.  Pritzie
Logged

Pritzie

  • Guest
Re:Benzoylecgonine
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2005, 04:37:19 AM »

I should also add the following:

I am on numerous prescribed medications for pain management for 9 herniated ruptured dissecated discs in my lower back and neck due to a fall a little over 4 years ago.  I hesitate to put the list in a public forum, but I have been on these same drugs other than busiprone which is new this past month and a half, and have never failed a drug test before.
Thanks again, Pritzie

Well now it's even more interesting!  Today is Nov 1, 2005  I found a new doctor, drug tested for him, and failed again for COCAINE!!!  It was just a regular in office test that detected cocaine in my urine.  I left after being told they won't treat me or prescribe my pain meds, went to the indepent lab again, and this time did an observed urine test, and should have the results by thursday am.  I've been reading on the net what causes false positives for cocaine and two things I noticed are kidney disease or infection, and liver disease.  Well I already know I have liver disease since 2 years ago due to the synercid they gave me for about a year by I.V. to combat the MRSA/VRSA that I had from the first surgery.  Is it possible??? that after 2 more years of narcotic drugs, and handfulls of ibuprofen and acetomenephin to control the pain that my liver or kidneys are shot? and thats why I'm showing up positive for cocaine, but not for the metabolites?  Hope someone sees my question soon and gives some feedback.
Thanks
« Last Edit: November 01, 2005, 11:52:08 AM by Pritzie »
Logged

constant thinker

  • mad scientist
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Mole Snacks: +85/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1273
Re:anything besides cocaine that could possibly trigger the Benzoylecgonine?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2005, 03:38:13 PM »

I think you may have answered your own question. If liver disease causes false postives and you have it then. Guess what that may be causing it. It's also very possible your getting trace amounts of the stuff from the air and various other things.

I have never heard of hair testing for cocaine before. I studied all of the most commonly abused drugs (OC, Coke in all it's forms, Heroin, Morphine, Crystal Meth, and a few others). Mainly out of curiosity.

Your case is probably a combination of different factors. You've listed way to many variables for anybody to discern what is causing your failure of the tests.
Logged
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' " -Ronald Reagan

"I'm for anything that gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers, or a bottle of Jack Daniels." -Frank Sinatra

Pritzie

  • Guest
Re:anything besides cocaine that could possibly trigger the Benzoylecgonine?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2005, 07:38:59 AM »

I got the results back from the drug test I took 2 hours after the second doctor said I failed for cocaine from the independent lab that the courts use here, and guess what?  I did not test positive for cocaine or anything else for that matter on a 10 panel test.  When I called that doctor back on thursday and friday to be treated and prescribed my meds, they told me the results had not gotten back from their lab and I would have to wait until they got them back before I could come in again.  Then they told me to have a great weekend!  My breakthrough pain meds ran out on the 4th so I've now been without them for 3 days.  I called them back several times today, and each time I was basically put off and sent to voice mail.  finally, someone got on the phone with me and told me that my drug test came back and it was negative.  So I asked about coming in because my meds were running out and they told me, "the doctor doesn't feel that he can treat you at this time and I'll have to find another doctor to treat me"  I don't have another doctor.  I don't know what I'm going to do.  This is the 4th doctor that won't treat me in the past 2 weeks.  Am I on some kind of a list or something?  Thats why it's so important to find out about the hair strand test.  Because, if I didn't test positive for the metabolites in the hair test, it proves that the first doctor lied about it.  I just don't know where to turn and time is definately running out before I go into full withdrawl from everything, and still have the 9 herniated discs that are far worse by the last MRI than they were in the 2 previous ones.

Sorry so lengthy, but I just need answers.  Thanks
Logged

Pritzie

  • Guest
Re:anything besides cocaine that could possibly trigger the Benzoylecgonine?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2005, 08:08:21 AM »

Basically !!!!  this is my question.

Just forget all the other factors and thoughts because it is obvious that my original treating physician lied about my drug test initially.  And has somehow sent my name out or something (I know that sounds paranoid, but I'm 48, disabled, and I'm really not a paranoid person, getting a little desperate and scared sure, but definately not paranoid)  I mean 4 different doctors in 1 week?  Turned me down? and I'm a legitimate pain patient with all the records and MRI's to prove it.


My question really boils down to this.  

If I had used cocaine in the last 90 days, which is what the hair test tested back to, would the metabolites still be present from the time of the first urine test on Oct 6 to the time of the Hair Strand Test on October 24th?  The owner of the lab says yes.  My hair test is positive for cocaine, but negative for the 2 metabolites which are Benzoylecgonine and Cocaethylene.  He theorizes that if my son was smoking cocaine in the rooms he rented from me, that I could have come in contact through second hand exposure.  However, the fact that I test negative for the metabolites shows that I am not a user myself.

Can you direct me to any experts in the field?  or someone that would be interested in researching and following my case?  Surely, I am Atypical in what is happening to me, especially when a healthcare professional is at the top of the list accusing me of this and effectively stopping me from receiving med care from other doctors.  I don't know.  Isn't there anyone with a chemical knowledge interested in helping me with this?  Thanks
Logged

Mitch

  • In Vivo Chemist
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Mole Snacks: +354/-81
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5024
  • "I bring you peace." -Mr. Burns
    • Chemistry Blog
Re:anything besides cocaine that could possibly trigger the Benzoylecgonine?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2005, 09:24:30 AM »

If your body doesn't have metabolized cocaine, benzoylecgonine, I don't know how a hair sample proves your an addict?
Logged
Most Common Suggestions I Make on the Forums.
1. Always start by writing a balanced chemical equation.
2. Don't confuse thermodynamic stability with chemical reactivity.
3. Forum Supports LaTex

constant thinker

  • mad scientist
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Mole Snacks: +85/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1273
Re:anything besides cocaine that could possibly trigger the Benzoylecgonine?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2005, 04:01:57 PM »

Cocaine also metabolizes really fast. When you snort/smoke it you get a fast rush and usually come down an hour or so after (like really come down). I've heard of people testing barely (as in it shows a detectable amount that isn't a trace amount) postive for cocaine after around 30 days.
Logged
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' " -Ronald Reagan

"I'm for anything that gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers, or a bottle of Jack Daniels." -Frank Sinatra

Pritzie

  • Guest
Re:anything besides cocaine that could possibly trigger the Benzoylecgonine?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2005, 01:52:50 PM »

Constant Thinker.  Exactly my point!!!  If I had actually USED cocaine myself, as long as 30 days later ( or maybe even longer? they don't know exactly how much longer) the metabolites would have show up in my hair test.  obviously, when my hair test came back negative for the metabolites, it established at least for the 90 days prior to my doctors urine test that I was not a user, however, I may have been subjected to it by way of secondary exposure.  You would think, especially at my own expense that would have been sufficient proof to my doctor of 3 1/2 years+  that I didn't break my contract with her, and I can't be held responsible for someone else's use.  Granted, one might argue that well why were they in your house smoking cocaine in the first place?  Simple!  My son and his gf lied to me about it and hid behind their locked doors.  Right now I think I know more about cocaine and it's metabolites, which still isn't nothing really, than I ever wanted to know about it!!  I know his use has literally destroyed my life, as well as his since he's sitting in jail, and facing like 30 years behind all this.  I should probably be thanking God that they didn't take my home in the raid, since it was my home after all they were doing this in.  So, do I deserve to lose my pain management because he lied to me?  or because I am plainly stupid when it comes to drugs and couldn't smell it or something?  None the less, I am still cut off, and I have to believe at this point, 4 doctors later that they must have some kind of inter office type correspondance among pain treatment doctors that would maybe??? be a do not treat?  or drug seeker?  or doctor shopper? type list they can refer to if a doctor would choose to put someone's name on that list.  No, I am not thinking conspiracy here, as that would make me crazy or paranoid.  But come on?  3 doctors and 1 total quack that writes for every drug addict I know tells me that they won't treat me?  and they won't offer any explanation?  well I don't know but it sure has me wondering what is going on.  Not to mention her complete and total refusal to accept the hair test as positive proof that I was not a user, and was inadvertently subjected to it through my son?  

Mitch....    I am sitting here, in pain, which is not going to get better, and will only get worse obviously since I'm not fixed, nor can I ever be for my herniations in my neck and back, or for the surgical blunders over the past 4 years that created the mess in my abdomen that I live with, or the constant tearing of tissue where new tissue tears are occuring from the 2 botched hernioplasties, and 6 debridments of the abdomen that ensued.  I'm not better nor will I ever be from the synercid that they administered to me to combat MRSA, that failed vancomycin that they had to treat me with since nothing else would work.  A drug I might add that has accelerated FDA approval because it is not clinically tried and tested and they don't even begin to understand all the side effects of the drug.  Or how about the diseased liver from the synercid that is probably even as we speak getting worse due to the handfulls of aspirins that I am now taking every few hours to try to deal with pain without benefit of pain meds?  I guess, I wonder too how I can be considered that I failed for cocaine with a negative hair test for cocaine metabolites.  But more than that right now, I wonder how a doctor that went through all this with me for the past 3 1/2 years can live with herself knowing she cut me off my pain medications, knowing that I tested negative for the cocaine metabolites.  I swear I am trying so hard to keep fighting to find a doctor, even though I keep getting turned down without explanation.  I think I'm fighting a losing battle now at this point though and I'm running out of options and avenues.  I just thought maybe here where people actually knew science, and biology and chemical/biology I could get some answers or at least in touch with someone who would have those answers for me.  Thanks, Laura

By the way, my email is Pritzie@aol.com                if anyone reading has any suggestions please feel free to write to my email.  
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

Mitch Andre Garcia's Chemical Forums 2003-Present.

Page created in 0.298 seconds with 23 queries.