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Author Topic: Acetone mixed with Gasoline  (Read 128948 times)

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Ashkii21

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Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« on: March 22, 2005, 12:36:15 PM »

I read an article of mixing a small amount of acetone in gasoline and by doing this the gasoline will atomize better thus improving the fuel economy (mpg) of the vehicle. I know that acetone will dissolve (break bond between hydocarbon polymers (in low pH?)) normal fuel lines.(non-metal) I was wondering if these characteristics will change when mixed with gasoline. I know that gasoline is a mixture of heptane to decane and it also has some other additives. So my real question is: Will the mixture of acetone and gasoline damage the components of the engine made of hydrocarbon polymers? (fuel lines, viton valves/seals, O-rings) And if it does, why?

The link to the article is: http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

Is there an interaction between acetone and gasoline that will damage the fuel lines at the concentration described in the article? Or is this article like adding snake oil to the gasoline to improve it.
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hmx9123

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2005, 12:53:35 AM »

My guess is, based on experience and intuition, that acetone mixed with gasoline will degrade the fuel lines faster than gas alone.  The acetone won't really be affected terribly in its destructive properties toward your hose by the gas other than to serve as a dilutent so it will be slower than pure acetone.  Why it does this I'm not exactly sure, but ketones are notorious for swelling polymers, leaching out plasticizers, things like that.  It may be doing some of these things.

It is true that a lower flash point fuel will improve fuel economy; this is why cheaper grade gasoline gives you better gas mileage--it's got a lower flash point.  However, you can also get 'pinging' in the engine--pre-ignition sparking coming from the gas igniting too early.  This isn't good for your car.  In addition, if you have a high-performance car, the compression in the cylinders REQUIRES a better grade fuel with a higher flash point to run correctly.

Also remember that acetone is about 5% water, something you don't want to put in your engine.  I doubt there is an interaction between acetone and gas that will damage your fuel lines, but you probably don't want to add acetone for the following reasons:

1. Pre-ignition of the fuel
2. Damage to fuel lines from normal acetone properties
3. Water in acetone condenses inside cylinders, or rusts out your gas tank
4. Ketones and other oxygen-bearing organics like ethanol have been known to produce carcinogenic incomplete combustion products in exhaust.
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Steve R.

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2005, 12:04:06 PM »

Interesting subject....I have some questions though.....I did  a google search for Acetone in gasonline and came up with these urls:

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm

There also seems to be a lot of "talk" on the internet about Acetone in Gasoine:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/pes_acetone/

and

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone_as_a_Fuel_Additive

My qestion is,  are these articles based on solid science?

Thanks,

Stever R.

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gwehe

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2005, 08:30:17 AM »

Steve & Company....

I have been experimenting with Acetone in over the road vehicles for 10 years now, and I have found that it actuall DOES increase gas milage by at least 20% when used in both carbuerated and fuel-injected engines.  I have gotten as much as 39.7% increase in the gas milage in my 93 GMC S15 Jimmy that has installed a 98 Vortec 5.7L 350 V8 motor.

Care needs to be taken when adding it to your fuel supply, though the precautions are not that dire.  Just do not let it sit on your skin for a long time.  Make sure it gets well mixed into the fuel tank(s).  I have not NO discernable degrading in either the stock fuel lines (GM in my case) or aftermarket fuel lines and hoses.  This is most likely because the ratio of Acetone Gasoline is very small (about a 640 to 1 mixture or about 0.15 % mixture +/- . very small indeed)

We are currently working on a marketable mixture of Acetone & other ingredients to make it more stable for DOT purposes so it can be made "salable" to the general public..  stay tuned.... the Oil companies will fight it tooth and nail, believe me.

Montana
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hmx9123

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2005, 04:48:46 PM »

How do you deal with the 5% water in acetone?  Does it not collect in the engine after a while?  What happens to the vaporized water?  I'm curious.

In addition, why don't you do this with other highly volatile solvents, such as diethyl ether or the like?  Would that not help your mileage, too?
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Steve R.

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2005, 02:36:23 AM »

Hello gwehe amd hmx91213

Thanks very much gwehe for the information.  I am going to give the acetone a try. I noticed that a lot of people on the Internet are talking about it now and what you are saying jives with what the lubedev website is saying.  I also saw that there is person who is bottling the straight acetone and selling it. :)

hmx91213...I wonder if the amount of acetone used, 3oz to 10 gallons of gas is so small, that 5% water is not going to be harmful?  The articles on this website do not mention 5% water as a problem when using acetone.

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/

Thanks again,

Steve R.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 03:11:36 AM by Steve R. »
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Corvettaholic

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2005, 06:15:22 AM »

I don't think such a minute amount of water would be a problem in an engine. Sure you can't compress, but for a regular its not a big deal. When the exhaust valve opens it'll just crap out most of that water. Having it sitting in your engine while its off isn't the best thing, but if you drive regularly you should be okay. Same problem happens if you have fuel sitting in your cylinders, I know all about this one. Had some leaky injectors, and the fuel sat in the cylinders and killed my piston seals. Well it'll do it over time anyway.
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billnotgatez

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2005, 09:25:13 PM »

One wonder if Acetone will act like dry gas and therefore 5% water in the Acetone would not be an issue
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sportscars

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2005, 11:47:50 AM »

My understanding is that acetone reduces the surface tension of gasoline thereby increasing vaporization and allowing more of the fuel to be consumed during the combustion process. This also is said to reduce emissions. Acetone also increases the octane some so pre-ignition (pinging) should actually be reduced.
Also if you do some research you will find that acetone is a major ingredient in many fuel system treatments.
I have been using acetone for several weeks now but my results are not as great as some others. This may be due to the fact that my vehicle is rather new or due to my driving habbits. In my opinion its not the miracle that many make it out to be, but it does seem to help some. As far as the water goes, 5% water in a mixture of .3% acetone to gas seems pretty small. I would imagine that you get more water in your engine by driving in humid air. I'll try acetone in my wifes van (older w/more miles) and see if that makes a bigger difference.
Just my 2 cents worth (hey, my keyboard doesnt have a cent key!).
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Jd1828

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2005, 05:37:30 PM »

What is the big problem with there being extra water?  

I built a water injection system for one of my cars.  It pumped high pressure water directly into the intake manifold.  Getting water in the engine isnt a big deal.  The pump I used was 100psi at 1.3gph.  The only problem with water in the engine is hydrolock which is not that easy to do.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2005, 05:38:10 PM by Jd1828 »
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billnotgatez

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2005, 09:05:28 PM »

Would acetone act similarly as dry isopropanol?

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/

8.7  How can I remove water in the fuel tank?

If you only have a small quantity of water, then the addition of 500mls of
dry isopropanol (IPA) to a near-full 30-40 litre tank will absorb the water,
and will not significantly affect combustion. Once you have mopped up the
water with IPA, small, regular doses of any anhydrous alcohol will help
keep the tank dry. This technique will not work if you have very large
amounts of water, and the addition of greater amounts of IPA may result in
poor driveability.

Water in fuel tanks can be minimised by keeping the fuel tank near full, and
filling in the morning from a service station that allows storage tanks to
stand for several hours after refilling before using the fuel. Note that
oxygenated gasolines have greater water solubility, and should cope with
small quantities of water.
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rdhaynes

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2005, 01:20:38 PM »

In 100% acetone there is NO WATER.

I don't think these people are talking about acetone-water mixtures.  It's PURE acetone they're talking about.

However, I don't know if MPG is increased - might try it out though.
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gw33gp

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2005, 07:16:35 AM »

Acetone readily absorbs water from the air.  If the container is sealed it will not absorb water.  Some plastic containers will allow slow transmission of water through the wall but if it is not stored in the plastic container for a long period there should be no problem.  Water has 100% solubility in Acetone and vica-versa.  It should absorb separated water in gasoline just like alcohol does without separating out itself.

I don't know why a little water in the combustion chamber is a concern anyway.  One of the main combustion by-products is water.  There is more water produced in the combustion process than could be introduced by adding such a small amount of Acetone.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 07:21:52 AM by gw33gp »
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iwerk2hard

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2005, 05:42:41 PM »

Isn't water vapor the most abundant gas in our atmosphere?
Even on a dry day in a dry climate there will be far more water passing through an engine from air than there could be from any miniscule amount that there might be in acetone or any other reasonably pure source of fuel. I was introduced to acetone as an indusrtial solvent/degreaser in 1978. I have great respect for it's volatility and an appreciation for it's power as a solvent. We dispensed it with plastic spray bottles like the ones we are familiar with for houseplants. It doesn't react with all plastics as readily as some may think. Some plastics will be ruined or dissolved instantly while others will be virtually unaffected. Of course the materials used in automobile fuel delivery systems are chosen for resistance to solvents as well as other factors. Just for S&G I have a small piece of 3/8" reinforced fuel line hose and a piece of 1/4" neoprene hose soaking in straight acetone to see how it may be affected. I had no reservations about trying a 640:1 ratio. I added 3 ounces of acetone to a full tank of gasoline (15 gallons) on Monday, (5 days ago). I can't speak for mileage yet, but engine "ping" was completely eliminated the first day. Other than "ping", performance isn't noticeably better, but it certainly isn't suffering either. (I'm running a 1987 Buick Century with the 2.5 litre "Iron Duke" 4 cylinder, 223000 original miles, I don't really expect much other than dependability.) My around town mileage has been constantly between 23.4 - 23.8 MPG, slightly less in winter. I've been keeping track of my gas mileage as long as I've been driving, if there's a difference I should see it with the first tank of gas, but I won't be convinced until I see repeated results. I'll report any increase or decrease, but it might be a while, I only put on about 75 - 100 miles per week.
  ;D :beer:
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Garneck

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Re:Acetone mixed with Gasoline
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2005, 04:23:41 AM »

Isn't water vapor the most abundant gas in our atmosphere?

No.
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