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Author Topic: Water into Wine  (Read 5675 times)

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KritikalMass

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Water into Wine
« on: December 21, 2009, 05:37:23 PM »

Can someone please propose a sythesis for converting water into wine, or of converting water into any sort of alcohol? Thanks  :)
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nj_bartel

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 06:11:53 PM »

What are you looking for?  Doubt anything available does it.
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KritikalMass

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 06:37:04 PM »

What are you looking for?  Doubt anything available does it.
I am looking to convert water into an alcohol or some other sort of organic molecule.

As you are probably well aware plants, some species of archaea, and some species of bacteria are able to convert inorganic compounds into organic compounds, so was just wondering if it was possible to convert water into an organic compound synthetically.

Thanks!
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Mitch

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 07:06:32 PM »

There is absolutely no way to turn water into wine, using water as a reagent to generate ethanol should be possible.
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408

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2009, 07:32:12 PM »

Add sodium ethoxide to your water; this will produce ethanol.  Byproduct is sodium hydroxide.
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nj_bartel

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2009, 08:32:24 PM »

What are you looking for?  Doubt anything available does it.
I am looking to convert water into an alcohol or some other sort of organic molecule.

As you are probably well aware plants, some species of archaea, and some species of bacteria are able to convert inorganic compounds into organic compounds, so was just wondering if it was possible to convert water into an organic compound synthetically.

Thanks!

In addition to what Mitch said, those organisms don't use inorganic matter (as far as I'm aware) to make that ethanol.
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Borek

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2009, 08:47:41 PM »

In a way it all depends on whether you classify CO2 as organic or inorganic ;)
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nj_bartel

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2009, 09:46:36 PM »

In a way it all depends on whether you classify CO2 as organic or inorganic ;)

I would call it inorganic :P  Didn't now ethanol was in that pathway.
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Borek

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2009, 10:22:40 PM »

Again, it depends on how you define pathway - obviously almost all organic matter starts as CO2 that gets combined into longer and longer carbon chain molecules.

But for obvious reasons water alone is not enough, you need carbon source, plus some minute amounts of many other elements.
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bromidewind

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2009, 05:19:16 AM »

Short of performing a miracle, I think that this is one of those things that the alchemists of yore have sought to perform for centuries. Much like turning lead into gold.

The one thing that does fall just Angstroms short of a miracle is using a particle accelerator to actually change the atomic structure of water to that of extremely simple methanol. I'd use some deuterium for that maybe. And a couple trillion dollars.

But as for turning water into an alcohol, you'd have to, as previously mentioned, use it as a reagent. Adding sodium ethoxide would form ethanol, or you could run an acid-catalyzed hydrating reaction. And to actually convert the water into wine, you'd have to know how to add all the other molecules that give wine its distinct flavor.
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billnotgatez

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2009, 07:44:50 AM »

It is my understanding that plant life converts carbon dioxide and water into sugars which ate converted to carbon dioxide and ethanol by yeast. I assume all this could take place in water.
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orgopete

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2009, 10:49:46 AM »

As has been pointed out, converting an oxygen atom into a carbon atom (loss of an alpha particle) requires nuclear chemistry. The other nuclear reaction of (6x) deuterium atoms into carbon is just as difficult.

If you are searching for how to convert water to wine, you probably won't find many believers here?
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zaphraud

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 11:15:46 AM »

Oh, sure, like it says distilled or even deionized water anywhere... why not start with fully aerated mineral water, just to make the problem solvable without having to split the atom?

Keep in mind, bacterial contamination should also be a given that is reasonable to assume at any point.

The real hard part, without adding life, is the carbon-carbon bond, honestly. We've only just recently* learned how to split that in a fuel cell in a manner that gives usable energy, and considering the construction of the catalyst it's not likely one in which the energy can be passed back into the system to reverse the reaction in a meaningful way in the first place. Nevertheless, people are working on it**.

* New Catalyst Paves the Path for Ethanol-Powered Fuel Cells
**C2-oxygenates synthesis over Rh-based catalysts and in-situ EPR characterization of TiO2 photocatalyst
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opsomath

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2011, 03:57:33 AM »

It's a clever question, folks, and I suspect it is allowed to use an organic molecule as a carbon source. I like it.

If I'm right, I would suggest the SN2 hydrolysis of ethyl chloride in alkaline water. (In real life, you would probably need a phase transfer catalyst to make this work well.) I suggest ethyl chloride rather than the more lab-traditional bromide or iodide, because those other halides are more toxic, and what's the point of making ethyl alcohol if it's not drinkable?  ;)
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fledarmus

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Re: Water into Wine
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 04:17:04 AM »

How about using diethyl carbonate, and possibly a trace of acetic or tartaric acid? The hydrolysis should give you carbon dioxide and ethanol - more reactive than the ethyl chloride and the sideproducts are not only non-toxic, but might even give you a nice sparkling wine!

But if you are allowed to use an organic molecule as a carbon source, why not just use ethanol?
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