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Author Topic: Nife battery construction  (Read 1533 times)

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maxvortex

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Nife battery construction
« on: October 30, 2012, 09:24:09 AM »

Hi !
Well, after some time doing research with nife battery i can say that i'm getting somewhere .-).
My home made cell has 1,45V and 150mA. Of course, there are some general problems like quite fast self discharge ( in 8 - 9 hours, voltage will drop to half ) but it's much better then before.

Next step will be to join several cell into one glass container but there is one problem.
I don't understand the basic multiple cell design.
In my understanding each cell should be separated in some closed block and electrolyte from one cell should not be mixed with electrolyte of other. Shortly, there must be some kind of galvanic separator between those cell.

BUT, according to this
http://edisontechcenter.org/batteries.html
there is a way to "share" the same electrolyte with multiple cells.
Btw. the picture shows 6V system. Cells are connected in serial.

Max
 
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vex

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Re: Nife battery construction
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2012, 06:34:33 AM »

Lots of people interested in batteries on these forums!

So, I don't really understand what you're asking. Is your question whether you can "share" the electrolyte between all of your electrochemical cells? What is the advantage of doing this? If you already know it'll work with isolated cells connected in series, what's the motive for trying this another way?

...or is your question something different?
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Arkcon

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Re: Nife battery construction
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2012, 06:42:54 AM »

I don't really understand what you're asking.  The cell you have a photo of appears to share electrolyte between individual cells.  But why shouldn't it?  The current flows between the electrodes -- chemical reactions occur at the plates and between them, based on red-ox potentials.  The electrolyte that happens to not be between the plates, isn't affected.  Are you worried about a short circuit?  Because that's not what the electrolyte does.  As a side reaction to what is happening in the battery, as current flows, there is some electrolysis of the electrolyte, decomposing it.  That's the benefit of having a common resevoir, so no cell suffers from the depletion.
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maxvortex

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Re: Nife battery construction
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 04:35:59 AM »

Thnx for reply guys.

Quote
Is your question whether you can "share" the electrolyte between all of your electrochemical cells? What is the advantage of doing this? **
Yes this is my question. The advantage is that i don't need to construct each separated block, for each cell. My final battery should have 48V and to do this i have to connect 30 cell in serial. Before I saw the photo I was thinking that I have to do 30 separated containers, but it looks like that I don't.

If I submerge 2 or more cell's in one electrolyte the current will increase but that's not what i want.
I need to increase the voltage an the only way to do this ( as far as i understand ) is to make separated cell containers. Each container for each cell and then I can connect them in serial to get the desired voltage.

Quote
The electrolyte that happens to not be between the plates, isn't affected.

** That's what I was thinking but it doesn't make sense. Why?. Well look at "one cell" part.
If the separator is used for blocking the rest of the electrolyte to come between one side of the plates, then this would mean that the other side of the cell is not used. But of course, this isn't the situation.
So again, you have short circuit if you connect multiple cells in serial. Maybe there was one additional separator between cells, but it can not be because all the cells are in same electrolyte and there is bunch of electrolyte left on the bottom of the cell.  This is not 2V system, it's 6V and cells are connected in serial.

My goal is to use common reservoir and one container for 30 cells. Not 30 separated containers...
Is there a way to do this ?

Max

 Are you worried about a short circuit?
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Battery Bran

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Re: Nife battery construction
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2012, 05:33:22 AM »

Hi !
Well, after some time doing research with nife battery i can say that i'm getting somewhere .-).
My home made cell has 1,45V and 150mA. Of course, there are some general problems like quite fast self discharge ( in 8 - 9 hours, voltage will drop to half ) but it's much better then before.

Next step will be to join several cell into one glass container but there is one problem.
I don't understand the basic multiple cell design.
In my understanding each cell should be separated in some closed block and electrolyte from one cell should not be mixed with electrolyte of other. Shortly, there must be some kind of galvanic separator between those cell.

BUT, according to this
http://edisontechcenter.org/batteries.html
there is a way to "share" the same electrolyte with multiple cells.
Btw. the picture shows 6V system. Cells are connected in serial.

Max

Congrats on your progress, Max!  I am a professional battery guy, but I am not here to promote any business or special interest.  I have a lot of info on the batteries, and would like to help.

Here is a flyer for a 6V battery with 5 cells in one container.  The cells are connected in "series" (+ to -) to build voltage.  Take a look and let me know if you have any questions or need any additional information. 

Please take a look at the 5pg pdf (too large to attach) http://www.nickel-iron-battery.com/eagle-picher.pdf

Here is a link on how those batteries were used...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_TEVan

Keep up the great work!
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maxvortex

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Re: Nife battery construction
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2012, 10:59:47 PM »

Hi.
Are you battery developer or seller / distributor ?
If you are developer then i have few questions. Or better bunch of them :-)

1.) How big should be the plates to get cca 10A per cell ?

2.) Can i increase size with active carbon or graphite, so that i dont need to use big plates. ?

3.) In your first picture cells are connected in serial but it doesn't look that they are galvanic separated ( electrolyte is still on the bottom of the cell ).

Please be so kind and share some light on those questions.

Max
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