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Topic: heating effect  (Read 2754 times)

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Offline AdiDex

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heating effect
« on: March 28, 2015, 01:14:50 AM »
C1CCC(CC1)(C(=O)O)C(=O)O
What happens  if we heat it..??
I thought H2O will eliminate ....and anhydride will form but then i realised the anyhydride which is forming , have 4 membered ring so it can't be a major product.
So now what i think this product should be major product C1CCC(CC1)C(=O)O am i right ...??

What i think that anhydride formation occurs preferably in acidic medium ..otherwise CO2 get eliminated...am i right..?

I have  some doubts
1. I want to show my mechanism but i don't know how to show . anyway i am trying to
write . first C-C bond will undergo homoletic cleavage then O-H  bond and CO2 will form , Now we have H·  , it can combine with C· and the product will be C1CCC(CC1)C(=O)O . Is this mechanism is appropriate ..?.

2.  Can H· attack on C-H bond to form H2 and C1CC=CC(C1)C(=O)O  ...is this our major product...??

3. What will happen if we just heat a compound having O-H bond ..This bond will undergo which cleavage either homoletic or heteroletic ...? (No acidic medium or basic medium is given)

Offline TheUnassuming

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Re: heating effect
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 09:01:40 AM »
I think generally you are on the right track, though be careful as most of the time you will get heterolytic cleavages vs homo in mechanisms you encounter.  The exception to this is if the reaction conditions include explicit radical conditions like light or chemical radical initiators. 

Formation of the anhydride seems unlikely if you are just heating the substrate. 

Try starting with deprotonation of one of the carboxylic acids (imagine perhaps it protonates the carbonyl of the other carboxylic acid).
When in doubt, avoid the Stille coupling.

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: heating effect
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 08:04:03 PM »
I had imagined that two or more diacids would join to make the anhydride together, as a cyclic dimer or an oligomer. Or wouldn't they? Hum, I'm leaning far out of my knowledge window here.

Like that: C1CCCCC12C(=O)OC(=O)C3(C(=O)OC2(=O))CCCCC3

Offline AdiDex

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Re: heating effect
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2015, 10:42:16 AM »
Like that: C1CCCCC12C(=O)OC(=O)C3(C(=O)OC2(=O))CCCCC3
I think it will not be the major one....because in this reaction 2 molecules are reacting so it will be less probable.....moreover it is entropy disfavoured .
When we heat drastically may be it will form in bery less quantity.
I don't know whether it is correct or not.this my opinion.

Offline TheUnassuming

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Re: heating effect
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 09:31:55 AM »
In general when I see two carboxylic acids coming off the same carbon and see energy being put into the system I assume there will be a decarboxylation event of some manner. 
When in doubt, avoid the Stille coupling.

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: heating effect
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 12:37:34 PM »
Thanks, +.
And my apologies for having put nonsense.

Offline TheUnassuming

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Re: heating effect
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 12:46:42 PM »
Thanks, +.
And my apologies for having put nonsense.
haha... no apologies.
When in doubt, avoid the Stille coupling.

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