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Topic: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?  (Read 4224 times)

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Offline carotis

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Hello there!  :)
I am new on board and I sincerely hope you can give me a hand because I am kindo frustrated.  ;D

Here it goes: I have  4-Bromophenylacetylene. This one http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB7440678.htm

First I treat it with LDA. What should happen I think, is the deprotonation of the ethine, so the H+ goes off.

Well, I was wondering... if  I give H2O the next  step after then what I thin would occur is the reaction with H2O and Li to LiOH and the H+ attach to the ethine again.

But that would make no sense. So I think there must be a substitution with Br to (-)Ethine-Ph-OH and HBr but it would be double negative charge on both ends. So... somebody know the solution of my misere problem?

P.S: It's such a pain in the ass with the verification letters  :-\


Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2015, 04:37:56 PM »
Can a nucleophile approach 180 degrees from the bromine?

Offline hxj1985620

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2015, 08:19:25 PM »
LDA only act for the deprotonation of the ethine, which can't remove the bromine. Only 4-Bromophenylacetylene can be got if u quench the reaction with H2O

Offline clarkstill

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 04:14:14 AM »
One could imagine lithium-halogen exchange if an excess of LDA were used:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organolithium_reagent#Lithium-Halogen_exchange

These are more common when BuLi is used, rather than LDA, but it's definitely a possibility. Have you tried this experiment? What products do you get?

Offline orgopete

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 01:28:40 PM »
Carotis, can you post a jpg of the actual problem? I agree that as stated, it doesn't make a lot of sense. It could be an error or it could be something missing? It can also be helpful to tell us the source of the discussion, organometallic chemistry, acetylene chemistry, etc. (assuming it is from a class).
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Offline carotis

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 05:17:23 PM »
THank you for all the answers people, you are awesome. :)

Offline carotis

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 05:22:56 PM »
Here is the pic  :)

Note: This reactions goes this way under the assumption that Lithium is still in the solution. I think it also stood in the lecture book that if the reaction goes under protonic solvent like water then it would fail... I dunno but if it's the case right here. But lets just consider both possibilities ;)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 05:35:28 PM by carotis »

Offline orgopete

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2015, 08:13:07 AM »
I was hoping to see the stoichiometry of the reaction as to whether a benzene intermediate might have been indicated, a transition metal for an Ulman-like coupling, or whether another reagent was missing from the reaction, like formaldehyde to lengthen the chain. In the absence of any of these, I too would write a return of the starting acetylene.
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Offline TheMantis

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2015, 04:58:18 PM »
Be careful.  the LDA could be nucleophilic enough to undergo a nucleophilic aromatic substitution to displace the bromide.  Anionic amines are generally nucleophilic enough to do this even if there are no deactivating groups onto the ring.  You could get a serious side product.

I would recommend a different reaction condition.

Offline orgopete

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2015, 08:55:00 AM »
Be careful.  the LDA could be nucleophilic enough to undergo a nucleophilic aromatic substitution to displace the bromide.  Anionic amines are generally nucleophilic enough to do this even if there are no deactivating groups onto the ring.  You could get a serious side product.

I would recommend a different reaction condition.

Re nucleophilic aromatic substitution
LDA won't directly substitute for the bromine. It could by first forming a benzyne. I would anticipate the acetylide anion to add to a benzyne before diisopropylamine, however without seeing how the problem was written in the book, I don't think that was the purpose of the LDA, especially as benzynes give mixtures.

This problem has the appearance of an addition to an aldehyde, ketone, or another electrophile that should be quenched with water, but such a reagent is missing.
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Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: What is the result by treating 4-Bromophenylacetylene with LDA then H2O?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2015, 10:05:25 AM »
Perhaps the whole point of the problem was to show that water would be a problem.

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