April 19, 2024, 08:40:02 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Rate of Decomp / Hess with K Values?  (Read 9737 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline arnyk

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • D'oh!
Rate of Decomp / Hess with K Values?
« on: May 09, 2006, 05:05:20 PM »
Looking over this multiple choice chem exam, couple are stumping me:

Ok here we go, this one's been bugging me:

Decomposition of CH3CHO to CH4.

r = k [CH3CHO]

k = 0.035 min-1

How long does it take for [CH3CHO]] to decrease from 0.4 M to 0.3 M?

A less than 1 minute
B 4 minutes
C 8 minutes
D 16 minutes
E greater than 16 minutes

I'm still messing with the units.  r = mol / L min

If k is in min-1, *what* min-1?  Is it mol / min?  grams / minute?  Need a little nudge here.

--------------

This one looks like Hess:

If

2N2(g) + O2(g) <--> 2N2O(g)   Kp = 5.04 x10-37
N2(g) + O2(g) <--> 2NO2(g)   Kp = 4.23 x10-31

What is the Kp for-

2N2O(g) + O2(g) <--> 4NO(g)

Ok, what I did was "reverse" the first equation which gives you -5.04 x10-37.

Multiply equation 2 by "2" in order to get 4NO2(g) which gives you +8.43 x10-31.

Adding them cancels out into the final equation, and also gets you a final Kp of 8.46 x10-31.

The right answer is Kp = 3.55 x10-25.

My first thought is that you cannot do Hess's Law with K values?  What then am I doing wrong?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 08:38:37 PM by arnyk »

Offline Albert

  • Lonely Wanderer
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1050
  • Mole Snacks: +112/-22
  • Gender: Male
  • Half Decent Pharmaceutical Chemist
Re: Balancing Q' and Kc/rate constants
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2006, 05:16:11 PM »
Looking over this multiple choice chem exam, couple are stumping me:

Balance the following chemical equation:

x Cr2O7-2 + y Cl- --> m Cr3+ + n Cl2

When it's balanced, what is the ratio x : y ?

A 1:1
B 1:2
C 1:3
D 2:3
E 1:6

The problem I'm having I suspect is that I do not fully understand the background knowledge required.  The way I see it is that the charges are presently balanced.  However, how can you balance the "O" when it is only on the left side?  <-- That's the part you gotta whack into me for me to get it.  The answer is 1:6 by the way.


In my opinion, the easiest way is writing the two half reactions, which often contain protons and molecules of water (generally speaking): of course, you just have a basic and incomplete chemical equation.

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27652
  • Mole Snacks: +1800/-410
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Balancing Q' and Kc/rate constants
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2006, 05:31:45 PM »
The problem I'm having I suspect is that I do not fully understand the background knowledge required.  The way I see it is that the charges are presently balanced.  However, how can you balance the "O" when it is only on the left side?  <-- That's the part you gotta whack into me for me to get it.  The answer is 1:6 by the way.

To balance such equation you should take into account fact that it goes only in acidic conditions, thus you should add H+ on the left and H2O on the right.

But to give x:y answer you don't need to balance the equation - you just compare oxidation numbers.

Read more about balancing redox reactions to get the idea.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline syko sykes

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 128
  • Mole Snacks: +12/-10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Balancing Q' and Kc/rate constants
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2006, 07:52:59 PM »
To balance such equation you should take into account fact that it goes only in acidic conditions, thus you should add H+ on the left and H2O on the right.
using this method you should end up with:
 14H+ + Cr2O72- + 6Cl- --> 2Cr3+ + 3Cl2 + 7H2O

start with a 7 on the water to balance the oxygens, then a 14 on the H+ to balance the hydrogens, then 2 on the Cr3+ to balance Cr, then 6 on Cl- to balance charge, then 3 on Cl2 to balance Cl

But to give x:y answer you don't need to balance the equation - you just compare oxidation numbers.
This method also works. On the left side of the equation, Cr has an oxidation number of 6+ and Cl has an oxidation number of 1-. Therefore you would need 1 Cr to balance 6 Cl, hence the answer 1:6.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 10:45:00 PM by syko sykes »
AP Chemistry Squad Member [V]

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27652
  • Mole Snacks: +1800/-410
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Balancing Q' and Kc/rate constants
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2006, 04:09:48 AM »
using this method you should end up with:
 14H+ + Cr2O72- + 6H2O --> 2Cr3+ + 3Cl2 + 7H2O

You have eaten chlorides :)
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline arnyk

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • D'oh!
Re: Balancing Q' and Kc/rate constants
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2006, 06:27:07 PM »
Ok I see it now.  Cr on the right side has an oxidation number of 6+.  Since it has to gain 3 electrons to become Cr3+ on the product side...actually it has to gain 6 electrons since it is Cr2 meaning there must be 2 Cr3+ on the right.  Those 6 electrons must come from Cl- (the reducing agent), therefore the coefficient on Cl- is 6.

Stay tuned for a few more guys!  :D

Offline arnyk

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • D'oh!
Re: Balancing Q' and Kc/rate constants
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2006, 07:47:02 PM »
Ok here we go, this one's been bugging me:

Decomposition of CH3CHO to CH4.

r = k [CH3CHO]

k = 0.035 min-1

How long does it take for [CH3CHO]] to decrease from 0.4 M to 0.3 M?

A less than 1 minute
B 4 minutes
C 8 minutes
D 16 minutes
E greater than 16 minutes

I'm still messing with the units.  r = mol / L min

If k is in min-1, *what* min-1?  Is it mol / min?  grams / minute?  Need a little nudge here.

Offline wereworm73

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 179
  • Mole Snacks: +21/-4
Re: Balancing Q' and Kc/rate constants
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2006, 08:10:42 PM »
min-1 is just 1/min.  Multiply that by the concentration and you get mol/L min as your unit.


Offline arnyk

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • D'oh!
Re: Balancing Q' and Kc/rate constants
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2006, 08:24:36 PM »
How do you solve for minutes though?

If k is just the inverse of time, then it could be:

r = [CH3CHO] / t

System of equations?

r = k [CH3CHO]

k [CH3CHO] = [CH3CHO] / t

t = 1 / k

D'oh, back to where I started.  ???

Offline wereworm73

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 179
  • Mole Snacks: +21/-4
Re: Rate of Decomp / Hess with K Values?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2006, 08:57:51 PM »
Since your reaction is a first-order type (r=k[X]), you can use the integrated first-order rate law to solve the problem.

ln [new concentration] = -kt + ln [original concentration]





   



 

Offline arnyk

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • D'oh!
Re: Rate of Decomp / Hess with K Values?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2006, 09:17:03 PM »
Therefore,

t =[ ln[new] - ln[old] ] / (-k)
t = 8.22 minutes.

The answer is C 8 minutes.  Correct! Thanks!

Now for the final:
This one looks like Hess:

If

2N2(g) + O2(g) <--> 2N2O(g)   Kp = 5.04 x10-37
N2(g) + O2(g) <--> 2NO2(g)   Kp = 4.23 x10-31

What is the Kp for-

2N2O(g) + O2(g) <--> 4NO(g)

Ok, what I did was "reverse" the first equation which gives you -5.04 x10-37.

Multiply equation 2 by "2" in order to get 4NO2(g) which gives you +8.43 x10-31.

Adding them cancels out into the final equation, and also gets you a final Kp of 8.46 x10-31.

The right answer is Kp = 3.55 x10-25.

My first thought is that you cannot do Hess's Law with K values?  What then am I doing wrong?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 09:40:31 PM by arnyk »

Offline syko sykes

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 128
  • Mole Snacks: +12/-10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Balancing Q' and Kc/rate constants
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2006, 10:45:50 PM »
using this method you should end up with:
 14H+ + Cr2O72- + 6H2O --> 2Cr3+ + 3Cl2 + 7H2O

You have eaten chlorides :)
oops, that first H2O was supposed to be a Cl-... fixed now
AP Chemistry Squad Member [V]

Offline wereworm73

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 179
  • Mole Snacks: +21/-4
Re: Rate of Decomp / Hess with K Values?
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2006, 12:13:15 AM »
You have to treat those Kp values exponentially.

When you reverse the reaction, the Kp is now a reciprocal.  When you double everything in a reaction equation, the Kp is squared.  The Kp for the overall reaction in your case is
(Kp1)-1(Kp2)2.

Sponsored Links