April 26, 2024, 08:30:28 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Ester breakdown during distillation?  (Read 3497 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fejimush

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Ester breakdown during distillation?
« on: July 28, 2016, 07:49:57 PM »
I've been attempting to distill geranyl propionate C13H22O2 at std pressure without much success. 

Prior to reaching the boiling temperature the solution begins to turn from a clear to yellow liquid.  It's at least 90% of pure prior to distillation.

I wonder if the ester is breaking down into an alkene and an alcohol prior to reaching the boiling point? 

If this is likely, what techniques can I use to avoid this?

Also, today I attempted a vacuum distillation.  The fluid is quite sensitive to temperature and will boil violently.

For reference, the bp of geranyl propionate at standard pressure is ~282°C.

Kindly,
Graham

Offline hairygorillaz

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 34
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-0
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 12:52:34 AM »
I don't have experience with distilling esters, but I have distilled phosphines whose boiling points are around that of your compound without problems.

When you say it is sensitive to temperature, what do you mean? Do you mean it boils violently? If it is so, try vigourous stirring or boiling chips to prevent super boiling.

Offline discodermolide

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5038
  • Mole Snacks: +405/-70
  • Gender: Male
    • My research history
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 03:40:38 AM »
"Also, today I attempted a vacuum distillation.  The fluid is quite sensitive to temperature and will boil violently."

Never heard of a pressure/temperature nomogram? see http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/chemistry/solvents/learning-center/nomograph.html

Try applying the vacuum slowly, then the compound will not boil.
Development Chemists do it on Scale, Research Chemists just do it!
My Research History

Offline AWK

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7979
  • Mole Snacks: +555/-93
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2016, 04:11:23 AM »
B.p. 128 C at 15 mm Hg (from Fenaroli's Handbook of Flavor Ingredients - GOOGLE books)
AWK

Offline Fejimush

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2016, 10:46:26 AM »
Thanks for the feedback and tips folks.  This is really helpful.


Never heard of a pressure/temperature nomogram? see http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/chemistry/solvents/learning-center/nomograph.html

Try applying the vacuum slowly, then the compound will not boil.

I didn't know that there were online predictive tools.   This is excellent.  Thanks much!

I've been away from o-chem for a long time and getting back into it. 

Offline Fejimush

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 10:49:14 AM »
On this topic, do high bp esters tend to breakdown prior to reaching their bps? 

This is the first time I've experience this.  It seems odd for a chemical to have a bp that it can never achieve.

Offline AWK

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7979
  • Mole Snacks: +555/-93
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 11:06:31 AM »
On this topic, do high bp esters tend to breakdown prior to reaching their bps? 

This is the first time I've experience this.  It seems odd for a chemical to have a bp that it can never achieve.
Geranyl propionate contains two isolated double bonds. They can be easily oxidized  or polymerized at boiling point.
I thing distillation under nitrogen or argon is adviced, even under reduced pressure.
AWK

Offline Fejimush

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 11:28:09 AM »
Thanks AWK!

Offline Irlanur

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 423
  • Mole Snacks: +32/-4
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 02:08:18 PM »
Quote
It seems odd for a chemical to have a bp that it can never achieve.

eehm... sugar?

Offline Fejimush

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2016, 06:43:06 PM »
Quote
It seems odd for a chemical to have a bp that it can never achieve.

eehm... sugar?

Thanks Irlanur! 

I've haven't worked with sugar outside of the kitchen at low temperatures.

Offline discodermolide

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5038
  • Mole Snacks: +405/-70
  • Gender: Male
    • My research history
Re: Ester breakdown during distillation?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2016, 01:46:10 AM »
On this topic, do high bp esters tend to breakdown prior to reaching their bps? 

This is the first time I've experience this.  It seems odd for a chemical to have a bp that it can never achieve.


Lots of compounds decompose before reaching their melting or boiling point.
Development Chemists do it on Scale, Research Chemists just do it!
My Research History

Sponsored Links