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Author Topic: Hi, my introduction + question regarding siutability and critic of my NMR  (Read 2123 times)

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elegant-math

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Hi,

I am new here, so let me first introduce myself. My name is Ilgis, I have master degree in analytical chemistry (1995) and PhD in applied mathematics (1999). All my scientific and industrial life I worked with numerical mathematics with chemical applications, NMR, MRI, supersonic combustion, etc, so, please, excuse me if my chemical knowledge is not on the top level, and I forget already some important thinks.

I am here for critic for my new crowdfinding project: pocket size NMR stick for in situ monitoring of chemical reactions. My expectation that 500EUR for in situ NMR spectrometer including all possible and impossible numerical methods for NMR spectra would be interesting for many organic chemists.

Please, would you be so kind to suggest me:

1. possible improvement of my presentation of crowndfinding page: https://www.indiegogo.com/project/preview/0ea27b00

2. interesting chemical reaction(s) that I must/can/might run and measure spectra for them. I tested the stick already with polyester reaction (phthalic anhydride + ethylene glycol - H2O) and polycondensation of aspartic acid, however, I fell that these reactions are not very representative to demonstrate my NMR ability.

Thank you!

Sincerely,

Ilgis
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Arkcon

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Thanks for stopping by, I wasn't aware that it was possible to make an NMR that small, and still be useful.  I would keep trying any samples you can find, build up technical notes and app notes, and see who's interested in it.
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Irlanur

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It is very interesting. As I am a (solid state) NMR spectroscopist myself I am a bit doubtful at first and the link you provided seems a bit messy. The doubts mainly come from the obviously limited field.
Nevertheless I will give it a closer look as it would of course be extremely cool for routine applications in a LAB (and in the field!, e.g. in agriculture or whatever).
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Irlanur

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E.g. How should a database search work with 46 MHz resonance frequency? there will be so many strong coupled nuclei that I highly doubt that this works. (I don't know it, as I have no Idea how you actually do it...)

And i would actually just like to see some spectra with a comparison with conventional spectrometers.
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Irlanur

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Do I understand that it is in principle already working? So is the crowdfunding mainly for the software development?
I mean if it works I can talk about it with some NMR people here (ETH Zurich). But I guess the best advertisement would be you coming here and showing how it works. It is so cheap that most groups could just buy it without the glimpse of an eye.
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elegant-math

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E.g. How should a database search work with 46 MHz resonance frequency?
yes, you are right, 46MHz gives very bad signals for 1D NMR. We have NOESY + NSQC right out of the hardware. It gives 2 and multidimensional spectra that can be better matched by database.

Second advantage:

in case if we have set of mixtures of different substances (please consider in situ measurement of chemical reaction), each set contain the same substances (indeed it should be few 3-10 substances) with different relative concentrations. Applying multilinear decomposition we can get pure spectra right out of the mixture without any reference database.

One example of 1D spectra is at the bottom of my link. In the nearest time I will publish more.

Current state of the project: we have working device with some bigs/exceptions:

1. leakage in magnet ares,
2. bad convections for high viscous liquids,
3. not yet optimal cooling of electronics,
4. highly complicated production of case/magnets,
5. no GUI,

however, everything is not critical so we can fix most of them already on the second production batch.

hence, to decide to go or not to go, we need your kind feedback to believe that we can sell it in mass production level.

Sincerely,

Ilgis
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Irlanur

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As I said, if this really works of course you should go into mass production. I would show a "typical example" in an organic synthesis. Some first/second semester reaction. and follow it live with your spectrometer. Then just show the data. Something similar to a usual publication.

Quote
One example of 1D spectra is at the bottom of my link. In the nearest time I will publish more.
Is this an experimental spectrum? Is there no noise? (the axis is wrong/not labeled btw.)
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elegant-math

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I would show a "typical example" in an organic synthesis. Some first/second semester reaction.
please, suggest one or some, I tried already polycondensation examples (I mentioned it in my first topic) but I cannot say that they looks yet perfect, however, many important components are resolved. May be H, C, N and P/F would be also involved, we have resonator-free approach and measure all frequencies in parallel, so that we benefit a lot from multidimensional HSQC.

Is this an experimental spectrum? Is there no noise? (the axis is wrong/not labeled btw.)
yes, it is experimental (measured in real) spectrum on our NMR Stick. X is on ppm, Y is scaled so that each spectra have same L2-norm (sum of squares). Indeed is it based on several fids correctly processed, so that each component is almost noise-free (a little bit scaled, and glucose was not so nicely resolved). Total measuring time was about 1 hour, indeed the stick where used as HPLC sensor for gradient methanol-water and isopropanol-water experiments with pure d-glucose injected. Real signal/noise ratio on internal fids is below 1e-3, but 100k of fids with our mathematics did the job. I successfully used similar math for 22kDa and 600MHz long time ago ( doi:10.1038/nmeth900 )

Sincerely,

Ilgis
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Irlanur

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Quote
Real signal/noise ratio on internal fids is below 1e-3, but 100k of fids with our mathematics did the job. I successfully used similar math for 22kDa and 600MHz long time ago ( doi:10.1038/nmeth900 )

I don't get it yet. but its likely because of my very limited knowledge about advanced processing methods in NMR.
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Re: Hi, my introduction + question regarding siutability and critic of my NMR
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2016, 05:02:01 AM »

Looks great and affordable - good luck with the funding!
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Tonight I’m going to party like it’s on sale for $19.99!

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P

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Re: Hi, my introduction + question regarding siutability and critic of my NMR
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2016, 05:07:04 AM »

Sorry to see it did not get the backing....  I thought it was a great device - I would have one if I had the money to spend on it. I guess it is a niche item or maybe it needed better advertising.

Good luck.
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Tonight I’m going to party like it’s on sale for $19.99!

- Apu Nahasapeemapetilon
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