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Topic: Lets take apart this molecules name!  (Read 2530 times)

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Offline bubblegumpi

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Lets take apart this molecules name!
« on: May 14, 2017, 06:33:39 PM »
sodium N-cyclohexylsulfamate


So its straight forward except, is the N pronounced Nitrogen to not be confused with lower case "n" i.e. n-alkyl-dimethyl-benzil-ammonium chloride?
Sulfamate why not sulfanate as its just three O and one N.

Could the nitrogen be indicated by another way into the name instead of "N" like add ammonium to it?
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Offline mjc123

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Re: Lets take apart this molecules name!
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2017, 04:57:05 AM »
No, N is pronounced N. There should be no ambiguity in this case as "n-cyclohexyl" would be meaningless.
Sulfamate because NH2SO3H is called sulfamic acid.
Calling it "ammonium" would not be helpful or accurate. "N" indicates, not a nitrogen-containing substituent, but a substituent on the nitrogen of the main named compound. By contrast, NaNHSO2OC6H11, if it exists, would be sodium O-cyclohexylsulfamate.

Offline bubblegumpi

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Re: Lets take apart this molecules name!
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2017, 07:23:42 AM »
sodium N-cyclohexylsulfamate


So its straight forward except, is the N pronounced Nitrogen to not be confused with lower case "n" i.e. n-alkyl-dimethyl-benzil-ammonium chloride?
Sulfamate why not sulfanate as its just three O and one N.

Could the nitrogen be indicated by another way into the name instead of "N" like add ammonium to it?

So the name is based on the N: Nitrogen in the middle attached is a "Cyclohexyl' group, and a "sulfamate" group, and you were saying if there was an O in the middle with the two groups attached it would be called Ocyclyhexysulfamate?

When you see little n that indicates the length of the carbon group such as C14 C16 C18 n-akyldimethylbez(sic a quat compound). That would be the same molecule but with different length C "back bones"?
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Offline mjc123

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Re: Lets take apart this molecules name!
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2017, 08:47:50 AM »
The sulfamate group isn't attached to the nitrogen; the nitrogen is part of the sulfamate group (NH2SO3-). The N prefix tells you which atom of the sulfamate the alkyl group is attached to.
Little n doesn't indicate the length of the carbon group; it means "normal", i.e. a linear, unbranched alkyl group. Thus n-butyl means CH3CH2CH2CH2-, as distinct from isobutyl (CH3)2CHCH2-, sec-butyl CH3CH2CH(CH3)- or tert-butyl (CH3)3C-

Offline bubblegumpi

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Re: Lets take apart this molecules name!
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2017, 12:15:27 PM »
The sulfamate group isn't attached to the nitrogen; the nitrogen is part of the sulfamate group (NH2SO3-). The N prefix tells you which atom of the sulfamate the alkyl group is attached to.
Little n doesn't indicate the length of the carbon group; it means "normal", i.e. a linear, unbranched alkyl group. Thus n-butyl means CH3CH2CH2CH2-, as distinct from isobutyl (CH3)2CHCH2-, sec-butyl CH3CH2CH(CH3)- or tert-butyl (CH3)3C-

I drew this without looking anything up to see if I could do it.

EDIT: my sec butyl is wrong, I have an extra hydrogen there should be a split and a double bond?

Also in that quat compound when it start with C12 C14 C16 thats not the number of carbons in a functional group?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 12:27:39 PM by bubblegumpi »
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Offline bubblegumpi

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Re: Lets take apart this molecules name!
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2017, 12:33:48 PM »
Sec butyl

EDIT
No there is still an extra hydrogen. Are you naming stand alone molecules or groups with a free carbon bond (place where "R" would attach)? I have confused myself. 
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Offline mjc123

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Re: Lets take apart this molecules name!
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2017, 01:05:43 PM »
I'm talking about radicals. I put in a dash to indicate the free bond. "Butyl" is not a compound. As you worked out, the number of hydrogens is wrong.
E.g. n-butyl acetate is CH3CH2CH2CH2OCOCH3.

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