[rich38778]

Apologies if this is in the wrong area and if this is a little too close to pseudo science, but I have spent a long time looking at how so called 'electronic water scale reducers' are supposed to work.

I found some papers on Google Scholar, many by Young.I.Cho, Drexel University,  that claim to prove a mechanism by which the formation of Calcium Carbonate crystals can be modified by application of a pulsed magnetic field from a coil around a pipe.

I spent a while looking at other papers and found some to be contradictory.

Is there any hard evidence that limescale formation can be controlled, modified or reduced in any way by a weak electromagnetic field? If so does anyone know the mechanism by which this is supposed to happen?

All views are welcome!

[Arkcon]

Apologies if this is in the wrong area and if this is a little too close to pseudo science, but I have spent a long time looking at how so called 'electronic water scale reducers' are supposed to work.

OK.  This isn't too much of a problem.  If you want to look into the problem, we're glad to help.  Breathless testifying "I dont KNOW how IT WORK.  BUT it WORKS!!!!111!!!"  would be a problem.  But you're not there at this point.

I found some papers on Google Scholar, many by Young.I.Cho, Drexel University,  that claim to prove a mechanism by which the formation of Calcium Carbonate crystals can be modified by application of a pulsed magnetic field from a coil around a pipe.

Well that's good.  Here's some questions:

" prove a mechanism "
How do they do that?  Proving a mechanism would be a difficult thing without a deep treatment of physical chemistry,  is that what happens in that paper?


"the formation of Calcium Carbonate crystals can be modified "
OK, modified how?  The purpose of these devices is to prevent all crystallization in the pipes.  Do they define that as "modification"  or do they mean another change in the crystallization.  If the latter, are we sure that doesn't happen by another mechanism.

"application of a pulsed magnetic field from a coil around a pipe"
Could this be done on a clear plastic pipe and be observed experimentally?

I spent a while looking at other papers and found some to be contradictory.

What do they say?  Why are they different.

Is there any hard evidence that limescale formation can be controlled, modified or reduced in any way by a weak electromagnetic field? If so does anyone know the mechanism by which this is supposed to happen?

You seem to have some.  The difficult physical chemistry isn't need, just yet.  Anyone can read and try to see what's being asked, and with a critical eye, see if the evidence supports the conclusions.

All views are welcome!

You will be held to this statement in later posts.

[rich38778]

Well that's good.  Here's some questions:

" prove a mechanism "
How do they do that?  Proving a mechanism would be a difficult thing without a deep treatment of physical chemistry,  is that what happens in that paper?

.

Indeed he does, but my understanding of the subject is limited in depth, so I am unable to validate the theories he suggests.

"the formation of Calcium Carbonate crystals can be modified "
OK, modified how?  The purpose of these devices is to prevent all crystallization in the pipes.  Do they define that as "modification"  or do they mean another change in the crystallization.  If the latter, are we sure that doesn't happen by another mechanism.

Mainly by changing the crystal type/structure, so making more aragonite and less calcite.

"application of a pulsed magnetic field from a coil around a pipe"
Could this be done on a clear plastic pipe and be observed experimentally?

Indeed it can! I have done this, but I do not have access to a SEM to look at the crystal structure directly.

I spent a while looking at other papers and found some to be contradictory.

What do they say?  Why are they different.

Some say that one type of crystal is likely to bond to surfaces and form a hard layer, others say the opposite.

Is there any hard evidence that limescale formation can be controlled, modified or reduced in any way by a weak electromagnetic field? If so does anyone know the mechanism by which this is supposed to happen?

You seem to have some.  The difficult physical chemistry isn't need, just yet.  Anyone can read and try to see what's being asked, and with a critical eye, see if the evidence supports the conclusions.

All views are welcome!

You will be held to this statement in later posts.
[/quote]

What I am looking for is someone who may have looked into this area of chemistry at some point, maybe to validate some of the claims made, and to see if there is any consensus of opinion.

A paper titled Magnetics Task Force Report, by the Water Quality Association, 2001, appears to try to draw a consensus of opinion from something like 32 papers on the subject. Their conclusion is that more work is needed...