Chemical Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Sponsored links

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Down

Author Topic: The Decline of Home Chemistry  (Read 52558 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

scratfin

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Re: The Decline of Home Chemistry
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2010, 06:48:56 PM »

Simply put it: our government is more concerned about protecting people even if it means a few less genius minds.

That is a pretty picture.

When you look at the knowledge of your average lawmaker, they come from backgrounds that know nothing about science.  And since their goal is to get reelected, the real goal of all politicians; they need to PRETEND to be protecting people.  How best to do this then to 'regulate' things that the vast great unwashed consider scary, like toxic or corrosive chemicals.  It does not matter that while unregulated these materials never caused any harm (ok, granted an incident or two now and again) but where things that statistically cause more harm (like swimming pools) are left unchecked.  Not that pools should be regulated, just that they need to be passing feel-good legislation that hurts as small a group as possible as to not loose too many votes, but at the same time to appear to be increasing safety to the rest of society, to gain more votes.  Home chemists are just one group that get the short end of the stick here, homosexuals, gun owners, all have been victims to politics like these, and as has been seen the only way to protect ones freedom is to have enough of the discriminated group to be a major political force, or to somehow change how politics works.
Right, but posting this publicly viewable by an audience that fully approves of home chemistry is one thing. What would the average people who say "chemistry was my least favorite subject" feel about this. The same way you look at politicians they look at people like us. Of course they work for votes just as we work for knowledge (which in the end is actually better). Still, the everyday English teacher wouldn't much approve of some guy working with corrosive chemicals etc. The point here is to gain votes by making the general public feeling safer.
Logged

408

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Mole Snacks: +101/-27
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 789
Re: The Decline of Home Chemistry
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2010, 08:26:35 AM »

The point here is to gain votes by making the general public feeling safer.

Excellent, we are on the same page.  These initiatives do nothing to actually increase safety, the idiots the politicians pander to only think they do.

I have no practical instant solution, home chemist numbers are far too small for the victories that have been achieved by similarly-discriminated against groups.  Groups that have successfully pushed back ineffective, feel good, legislation usually have around 10% representation in the population, with only a fraction of them politically active.  Home chemists are far far less than 1% of the population. 

But based on what I have observed speaking to political fighters that have been with their respective fights 'since the beginning' of their effectual lobbying, is to get everyone affected on the same page, to create a larger support base for effective lobbying.  This means convincing all chemists that useless regulation starts with individuals, but chemophobia spreads into 'real labs', which of course it does.  Then working with amateur biologists, physicists, general tinkerers and much of the DIY groups, we would have a larger lobby, hopefully extending throughout the science community. 

Then we are a political force, and it costs more votes than a politician would gain by creating such ineffective, feel good legislation.  Even if the vote ratio would not work out in our favour, actual contact with politicians is a good way be heard.  There is no organized 'anti-home-chemistry' lobby, so with numbers it would be relatively easy to have 50 different people mail, or show up in a politician's office, with no one on the opposing side.  A feign of vote force that I have seen work Extremely well in other circles. 

Logged

Zerm

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
Re: The Decline of Home Chemistry
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2010, 03:44:40 PM »

Personally, I'm of the opinion that this generation would be much better off if we all played with dynamite when we were kids.

Taking a more pragmatic angle though, the best thing we can do as group is to spread the hobby.  Only when amateur science becomes common will people accept it as common.  I strongly believe a large problem with our society is lack of scientific inquiry.  People don't seem to understand that PEOPLE do science.  I am an electrical engineer by trade and people tell me all of the time "wow, you're so smart" and "I could never do what you do"  That's absurd.  Anyone could do what I do if they cared enough to learn about it just as anyone can do chemistry if they have the time and ambition to learn.  We must tear down the illusion that scientists belong in ivory towers removed from the masses weaving their craft as wizards in a manner that could never be understood by the common folk. 

When I perform chemistry out of my garage, why does no one ever assume it is a purely scientific pursuit.  Science is apparently only done in large laboratory facilities and sanctioned by corporations and government.  Science isn't done by you and me because it CAN'T be done by you and me.  This is what they believe, but they are wrong.  Science is only done by you and me.  Professional chemists are the same as you and me.  We differ in the path we have taken to our knowledge but are bound by the passion for scientific thought.  It takes only passion and intrigue to be a scientist.  The more people who realize this, the better off our world will be.

If we are to curb the trend of stereotype against home scientists, we must generate awareness.  We must generate interest in home science.  We must make home science serve our communities.  We must educate.  Only then may we be free to our pursuit of scientific enlightenment. 
Logged

408

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Mole Snacks: +101/-27
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 789
Re: The Decline of Home Chemistry
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2010, 08:47:28 PM »

Personally, I'm of the opinion that this generation would be much better off if we all played with dynamite when we were kids.



I gave you +1 just for that statement, and am in complete agreement.
Logged

zaphraud

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Mole Snacks: +2/-10
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 59
  • Microwave Chemist
Re: The Decline of Home Chemistry
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2011, 04:22:03 AM »

I beg to differ!!!

The emergence of microwave-accelerated reactions and the resulting "green chemistry" that becomes possible should actually trigger a resurgence in the possibility of performing exciting home chemical research; additionally because the microwave itself is somewhat new (magnetron invented in WWII, kept heavily classified for some time afterward), there is a ton of research to do here.

Even in the absence of microwave-specific effects, the simple ability to heat from within makes all sorts of reactions possible that never were before using only low-toxicity reagents. You can use an insulating, dehydrating substrate like silica, and still perform high-speed reactions. You simply can't do that with any other heating method.

If you want to do real research in the home, and find something that matters, fire up your microwave.
Logged

godneal

  • New Member
  • **
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: The Decline of Home Chemistry
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2012, 07:20:11 AM »

i was long ago labled a wack job and by one neighbor even called a nutter.  i have what the neighborhood has labled the shed of doom.  and even had the exspress pleasure of being raided by the local drug enforcement team with the four hours of exsplaining my readon for having a very large variety of multiple chems and all of my glassware was swabed and tested on sight as well as scrapings taken from my walls snd tje ominus we will be back.  this kind of thing is blown way out of proprtion.  after i got raided the roumer mill started running and by the end of the week everyone was convinced i was building bombs and cooking meth.  these sterio types of civ chemists is horrible.  and the funny part is i talked to the lady that called the cops on me and showed her how many doff chems she had in her house that could be used as precursors or to make the precursors to both drugs and exsplosives.  9 chances out of 10 if you have a gallon of bleach you are already in possesion of high exsplosives.  potassium chlorate was used as a filler exsplosiv in  WW2.  in the end it falls to if you havent broken the law with the chems you wont go to jail.
Logged

zsinger

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Mole Snacks: +16/-57
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 349
  • Graduate Chemist
Re: The Decline of Home Chemistry
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2014, 08:47:30 AM »

There is ABSOLUTELY more than one use for DEA (Diethylamine).  That is simply wrong chemistry.
              -Zack
Logged
"The answer is of zero significance if one cannot distinctly arrive at said place with an explanation"

Joeyups7

  • New Member
  • **
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: The Decline of Home Chemistry
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2014, 12:45:20 PM »

In my opinion it's not hard to get chemicals. I found most from places online and people I know who have had them shipped. I prefer learning how to make them. But also in my opinion I think the main reason why people are staying away from home chemistry is because the active chemists drive them away. Most of what I see is experienced people continually bashing the inexperienced. If you can't write the equation why are you here? Or how much experience do you have? Go to google. It seems most chemists I meet are such sticklers and are a huge contributing factor. I don't have a huge backround in chemistry at all. But I love to learn and experiment. And through all this learning I still can't write all the equations and know all the technical terms. But I know the raw basics and that's not good enough for most. If people were a little more accepting of the new, young, beginner chemist maybe there would be an incline and maybe with that incline there would be enough people to try and get laws changed for the home chemist. Thanks
Logged

billnotgatez

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Mole Snacks: +158/-43
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2818
Re: The Decline of Home Chemistry
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2014, 06:25:29 PM »

@Joeyups7
You have made several comments I would like to respond to

Acquiring Chemicals
Although, there are sources of chemicals on line, there are drawbacks you might not contemplate.
Some countries and states have strict laws that are arbitrarily enforced
a few examples
Too many pieces of glassware of a given type are illegal in some locations
Do you know when you will be put on a watch list

Although, there are
Quote
active chemists
that have made it difficult for the chemistry hobbyist, for the most part the
Quote
active chemists
are supportive. In fact many
Quote
active chemists
started out as hobby chemists. You can  not paint all
Quote
active chemists
with the same brush.

Of course, there are may "want to be" hobby chemist who create a bad reputation for the rest of us. I keep seeing the posts that state things like this
I just put some chemicals together will it kill me, I just wanted to see what happens.
Well, it is nice to be inquisitive, but can't you do a little research first. The Internet is full of stuff to include GOOGLE and WIKI. I know I try to post links that help you learn.

Then we get the person who comes on and says
I want to do chemistry, teach me all.
That is a tall task to do in a few paragraphs on a forum.
Why can't they make some effort to learn themselves, there is oodles of information one can tap into. If you do a search here you will find all sorts of books etc. that are available. I can not see us posting them every time someone is too lazy to search.

Changing laws
I wish I had that power
I am an avid supporter of citizen science, but I want everyone to be safe who participates.

So @Joeyups7, keep doing science, but be careful
The community that is not chemistry hobbyists is not always friendly and the chemicals are not always forgiving.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Up
 

Mitch Andre Garcia's Chemical Forums 2003-Present.

Page created in 0.062 seconds with 25 queries.