Chemical Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Sponsored links

Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Electrolysis of NaHCO3  (Read 1655 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Shannon Dove

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 14
Re: Electrolysis of NaHCO3
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2019, 05:57:16 PM »

Hanzdolo, I do not have any experience with it, but from what I have read, using a silent electric arc like the kind used for making ozone, does have the potential to be an extremely valuable tool for the at home chemists. For example, starting with methane, a lot of interesting compounds can be made. If I recall correctly, spraying some organic compounds in a fine mist in hydrogen gss with the silent arc make the same stuff as subjecting it to a Burch reduction.
This beauty of this method is it's an arc without the tremendous heat that would otherwise destroy the compound
Logged

hanzdolo

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
Re: Electrolysis of NaHCO3
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2019, 10:55:25 PM »

I don't know a simple book on electrochemistry. The topic itself is tricky, and I'm by no means an expert.

Do you know of any books that are complex on the topic?
Logged

hanzdolo

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
Re: Electrolysis of NaHCO3
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 01:28:04 AM »

Hanzdolo, I do not have any experience with it, but from what I have read, using a silent electric arc like the kind used for making ozone, does have the potential to be an extremely valuable tool for the at home chemists. For example, starting with methane, a lot of interesting compounds can be made. If I recall correctly, spraying some organic compounds in a fine mist in hydrogen gss with the silent arc make the same stuff as subjecting it to a Burch reduction.
This beauty of this method is it's an arc without the tremendous heat that would otherwise destroy the compound

Oh that's got my tail wagging,  ;D, I thought it would be possible to ionize any gaseous compound using an electric field.

Wait a minute..Birch reduction, you talking making the amine group from the elemental nitrogen and reducing without lithium or sodium present?

I'm planning to make the electric field gas ionizer using a method to ionize air enough to produce substantial amounts of Ozone or NO2 to produce H2O2 or Nitric Acid

In the presence of UV light:
H2O + O3  :rarrow: H2O2 +O2(g)

2NO2 + H2O2 :rarrow: 2HNO3

Logged

Shannon Dove

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 14
Re: Electrolysis of NaHCO3
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2019, 07:22:47 AM »

I read that when benzene vapor or mist is subject to silent electric arc in hydrogen, it made 1,4 cyclohexadiene,....and that compound is also made by the Burch reduction ,...I think but I'm not sure, I lost my notes on it.
As for nitrogen oxides, the good news is both cold and hot arcs can make that😁
I am also interested in experiment with a hot electric arc under water, so in a very small spot the arc is thousands of degrees, but the container of water can be kept cool and sit on a table inside. So if you make a slurry of gypsum and fine sand, and vigorously stir this in the water with the hot electric arc, as the particles pass into the arc, the calcium reacts with the sand the form calcium silicate and sets the sulfate free to form sulfuric acid. In other words, heating calcium sulfate with silicon dioxide makes sulfuric acid,...and my idea is to do it in a cool cup of water without a messy, noisy, electric furnace that has to be used outside.
Logged

hanzdolo

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
Re: Electrolysis of NaHCO3
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2019, 01:18:30 PM »

I read that when benzene vapor or mist is subject to silent electric arc in hydrogen, it made 1,4 cyclohexadiene,....and that compound is also made by the Burch reduction ,...I think but I'm not sure, I lost my notes on it.
As for nitrogen oxides, the good news is both cold and hot arcs can make that😁
I am also interested in experiment with a hot electric arc under water, so in a very small spot the arc is thousands of degrees, but the container of water can be kept cool and sit on a table inside. So if you make a slurry of gypsum and fine sand, and vigorously stir this in the water with the hot electric arc, as the particles pass into the arc, the calcium reacts with the sand the form calcium silicate and sets the sulfate free to form sulfuric acid. In other words, heating calcium sulfate with silicon dioxide makes sulfuric acid,...and my idea is to do it in a cool cup of water without a messy, noisy, electric furnace that has to be used outside.

The arc will boil the water at some point so it'll have to be jacketed to keep the solution cool, but the idea overall is awesomeness. That's what I was talking about when I initially mentioned arc ionization, aqueous. I had no idea you could produce sulfuric acid that way though.

You completely gave me the idea make the gas ionizer. I thought about the usefulness of having an H2O2 and HNO3 generator, but the cold arc reactions sound interesting. The presence of oxygen during some of those reactions is quite explosive though.

I was thinking to make a small induction burner so that I can place a steel cylinder on top of a bed of fiberglass fabric( as a heat insulator) inside of a flask then fill it with MgSO4 to distill the SO3 from it. The reaction with water is violent but from what I understand it forms a fine mist of sulfuric acid which is good to start with.

Whenever I come up with a new process, I like to make the reagent without having to have a prior amount. Like electrochemical Sulfuric Acid synthesis, I have to start with high voltages because I'm using plain water which is why I'm finding that I have to design a buck converter that can supply up to 170VDC, gradually reducing voltage as it detects a greater current flow (high ec/lower resistance), indicating the presence of SO4-.

I've notice that during sulfuric acid synthesis if I don't add basic sodium to the reduction half cell, it doesn't like to release the anion. Once I do, the current rises rapidly and when I add more anhydrous MgSO4 once I see it's nearly consumed and has become Mg(OH)2 it immediately begins reacting forming magnesia and greatly increasing current flow.
Do you know why this is?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
 

Mitch Andre Garcia's Chemical Forums 2003-Present.

Page created in 0.162 seconds with 24 queries.