[tractor engine]

Is it possible to increase fuel efficiency within a car engine using the techniques described here: http://easywatercar.com/2books.htm

I can see the logic behind it but to produce such an amount of HHO within such a small jar of water (using electrolysis powered from the battery) would, I'd have thought had a negligible effect on the efficiency of an engine.

As an engineer I know little about chemistry but I'd be interested as to what you think. Would this really work?

We have been discussing the subject at a popular UK forum here:http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=674369 where the idea is being criticised fairly heavily! We'd be really grateful if any of you could put any of your thoughts or ideas across on the matter.

Many thanks, Matt

[ifuller]

I think this is someone trying to make a quick dollar.

First of all, the engine of the car is used to recharge the cars battery. If you use energy from the battery to electrolyse the water, the engine will have to work harder to recharge the battery.

To continue, it is very difficult to simply electrolyze pure water. It is not, in and of it self, a very good conductor. If you use an electrolyte such as NaCl (Salt) to enhance the conductivity of the water you will produce Hydrogen and Chlorine gas. Not the Hydrogen and Oxygen that is needed.

In my opinion, if you could do it safely, yes adding hydrogen and oxygen to the engine would increase the amount of energy released when the spark plug ignited. However, the amount of energy required to create this hydrogen/oxygen gas would completely negate any benefits from the extra power and would end up costing you more efficiency. Sorry but this will not work.

[LFS_worker]

Hello all this is my first post and I hope I don't up set anyone

Actually these systems are very efficient ( I don't sell any products BTW) The idea behind these systems is to use a water based solution that has some disolved solid in it that will allow the conduction of electricity.  The systems are not completely idiot proof as most are using acetic acid (CH₃ COOH) and thus adding CO₂ back into the environment. 

These hydrogen generators can work and they do. 

A motor vehicles alternator (generator actually) will generate plenty of electricity to be used in electrolysis of water. If you have a DC amp clamp or an ammeter that will tolerate over 200A of DC then test your alternator at home.  Please be very careful though. Most car alternators are 3 or more phase generators that immediately put the energy through a series of diodes to make it DC.  There is a surplus of energy from the alternators and it is done on purpose.  The more load you add to a generator the more magnetic resistance you will get from the generator onto the motor.  If a car generator would be run at maximum load the belts would snap constantly, as well as the drag it would place on your engine.  Imagine driving around with your emergency brake half on.

Well thanks for letting me post and I hope to learn a lot more about CHEM on this site!  Thanks
Brian Borate

[Borek]

Snake oil.

You can't get more energy from burning hydrogen then you put into its production. This is one of the most fundamental laws of physics - energy conservation law.

Could be that part of the 36 W used for electrolysis ("The device connects to the 12 Volts of your battery via the ignition switch, to prevent hydrogen production when the engine is off. The device is fuse protected and draws very little current, only 1-3 Amps!") is then recovered in the engine, but in general you are only loosing energy.

[civilpaul]

What about using a Soda Crystal water solution, adding Aluminium rods. This will naturaly create electolysis without using any energy from the cars battery, and produce large quantities of HHO. Plus, Soda crystals contain no enzymes, phosphates, or bleech. Hence, reasonabley eco friendly.

[civilpaul]

This video may interest you. http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,3983370846.aspx

Regarding the use of hydrogen electrolyzers in cars.

[Borek]

In short: TANSTAAFL. Whoever tries to tell you its not true, lies.

[ARGOS++]

Dear Civilpaul;

I absolutely agree with Mr. Borek!,   ─   And every reall scientist would to the same. 
(I don’t like to calculate the energy balance for that for evidence!)

But it seems that additionally almost everybody ignores, that changing the Fuel in such a drastic way (change of: burning temperature, and head capacity, and working temperature of the engine, and “exhausting” temperature, etc) changes also the whole “Carnot Process”, what finally the engine would/will not survive after several times a few kilometerers, if at all.

Good Luck!
                    ARGOS⁺⁺

[Borek]

But it seems that additionally almost everybody ignores, that changing the Fuel in such a drastic way

IMHO amounts of these 'additives' can be safely ignored. How much hydrogen can reach a cylinder, if you produce it using 36W and engine revolves at 800 rpm? Compare that to gas/air mix intake in every suction cycle. Didn't check by myself, but intuition tells me 'don't bother'