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Chemistry Forums for Students => Analytical Chemistry Forum => Topic started by: Urbanium on April 22, 2015, 09:44:40 AM

Title: TLC stain
Post by: Urbanium on April 22, 2015, 09:44:40 AM
Is anyone aware of a TLC dip which does not oxidise the "oxidisable" spots on the plate (KMnO4, Goofy etc.), but instead acts as a reducing agent?
Title: Re: TLC stain
Post by: Dan on April 22, 2015, 10:22:00 AM
Goofy

I had to google that. Where does the name come from? I've always known it as CAM...

I found a recipe for 0.1% morin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morin_%28flavonol%29) in MeOH (source (http://www.chemistry.mcmaster.ca/adronov/resources/Stains_for_Developing_TLC_Plates.pdf)). Presumably morin is an antioxidant, so the mechanism would be reductive... I've never used it.
Title: Re: TLC stain
Post by: Babcock_Hall on April 22, 2015, 10:48:09 AM
What compound or class of compounds are you trying to visualize?
Title: Re: TLC stain
Post by: Urbanium on April 22, 2015, 11:33:48 AM
The compound has two alkyls and few of sulfurs and oxygens between, like an alternating ether-thioether system. For some reason I can't oxidise it, but since the whole compound is a dimer with an S-S bond in the middle, I was thinking of reductive cleavage on the TLC plate.
Title: Re: TLC stain
Post by: Babcock_Hall on April 22, 2015, 12:21:57 PM
Once reduced, you can use a TLC spray based on Ellman's reagent.  Thioethers?  IIRC we once tried a method that we found referenced in a paper coauthored by Isaac Asimov.  I think it used azide, but I don't believe that we had great success with it.
Title: Re: TLC stain
Post by: kriggy on April 23, 2015, 11:03:06 AM
The compound has two alkyls and few of sulfurs and oxygens between, like an alternating ether-thioether system. For some reason I can't oxidise it, but since the whole compound is a dimer with an S-S bond in the middle, I was thinking of reductive cleavage on the TLC plate.

Maybe hydrogen peroxide? we learned that thioethers can be easily oxidized to sulfoxides or sulfones
Title: Re: TLC stain
Post by: Babcock_Hall on April 23, 2015, 04:11:09 PM
G. E. Howard and J. Baldry, Analyst 94 July 1969, pp. 589-593
These authors use chloramine T for thioethers and perhaps disulfides.  I don't recall having tried this myself.  The azide method I mentioned used iodine, and it came from Chargaff's lab in 1948.  We did not have much luck with it, but we did not try very hard.
Title: Re: TLC stain
Post by: Babcock_Hall on April 10, 2024, 01:15:47 PM
Acta Chemica Scandinavica 1960 14:1980-1984.  Stig Akerfeldt used 1% CuCl2 in 50% ethanol containing 5% ammonia as a spray reagent to produce black spots for cysteamine S-phosphate on paper.  It also reacts with thiophosphate, but I am not sure how other compounds would behave.

Erratum
In regards to my previous message, I had a look at the 1969 paper by Howard and Baldry.  They did not use chloramine T for TLC detection; it was a reagent.
Title: Re: TLC stain
Post by: Babcock_Hall on April 10, 2024, 06:08:38 PM
A test thioether stained nicely with basic permanganate.