Chemical Forums

Chemistry Forums for Students => Undergraduate General Chemistry Forum => Topic started by: peterschmidt3943 on January 17, 2018, 12:45:11 PM

Title: Oxonium Ion
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on January 17, 2018, 12:45:11 PM
Hello,

normally, every book describes oxonium ion as H3O+, but some say that it is normally written as H9O4+ ... why?
Title: Re: Oxonium Ion
Post by: Borek on January 17, 2018, 02:30:17 PM
Hydronium is a solvated proton, solvation is an equilibrium, multistep process. Technically neither of these two formulas is correct, as solutions contains several separate cations of a general formula H(H2O)n+. Determining their individual concentrations is not trivial, different approaches give different values of n for which the form dominates the solution.
Title: Re: Oxonium Ion
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on January 17, 2018, 02:56:31 PM
Hello,

could you give me an example for better visualization?
Title: Re: Oxonium Ion
Post by: Borek on January 17, 2018, 03:55:52 PM
Not sure example of what you want. Reactions taking place are basically like that:

H+ + H2O ::equil:: H3O+

H3O+ + H2O ::equil:: H5O2+

and so on, with a general form of

H(H2O)n+ + H2O ::equil:: H(H2O)n+1+

H9O4+ is just one of these forms - H(H2O)4+.

As these are equilibrium reactions all forms are present in the solution together, so there is no single correct answer to the question "what form does the H+ take in water". Valid question is "which form dominates the solution?" - but the answer depends on the acid concentration and is not easy to determine. If memory serves me well n=3,4,5 are the most often cited values.
Title: Re: Oxonium Ion
Post by: Enthalpy on January 18, 2018, 11:42:11 AM
Several H2O per H+, but in a variable number.

As the H20-H+ bond is not very strong, it is regularly broken and it forms again, so the number of H20 is only a mean value. I expect it to depend on the H+ concentration too.

Water also organizes further than the first layer of molecules around H+. Water molecules stick to an other with proper orientation even without any ion in the vicinity, and the presence of the H+ orients the molecules several layers away. This influence only gets weaker with the distance and is broken by heat more often.

So H3O+ should be understood as a mere reminder that H+ isn't alone. But it isn't more accurate than writing H+ (aq).