Chemical Forums
Specialty Chemistry Forums => Citizen Chemist => Topic started by: Jiro on July 25, 2005, 06:45:20 PM
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here is a link to it:
http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/biodiesel.html
hmmm... up where i live we dont use this stuff but i hear in europe they use it all the time... I dont know why they wouldnt use it here in canada, most people don't know about it here. Is this a good business to get into?
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I heard of a few guys who went around to all the big restaurants and collected the used grease (for a price, of course), and they made fuel out of it. Of course, since the oil was used, it had to be refined a bit - like straining the french fry bits out :P
They were doing it to prove that biodiesel worked.
I don't know if a real business could exist for this stuff...gasoline is SO prevalent...but it might be worth a shot...have to do some planning.
I've personally always been a fan of the ultra-clean energy sources, particularly wind power.
But this plan is interesting too. I'm sure Crisco would approve! ;D
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I am sort of interested in this as well but I have serious reservations about putting that into my 6,000 dollar engine. Olympian (http://www.oly.com/biodiesel.html) sells biodiesel here in San Francisco but I have not tried it yet.
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So what kind licenceing do you need to mass produce this stuff?
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I am sort of interested in this as well but I have serious reservations about putting that into my 6,000 dollar engine. Olympian (http://www.oly.com/biodiesel.html) sells biodiesel here in San Francisco but I have not tried it yet.
David - Oddly enough I just started playing with this stuff. I work with a guy that has been running it for over a year now and his truck is getting better mileage, running cooler and he has been sending oil samples monthly to Amsoil and there is less wear on the engine than before he switched. Both my cars are gas jobs but I do find this stuff interesting.
Joe
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This has been discussed before
Check out the links in
http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?board=9;action=display;threadid=5177
My understanding is that if you do the process wrong you make soap instead.
I am keenly interested in this and intend to experiment with this in the future.
So many hobbies and so little time.
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This has been discussed before
Check out the links in
http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?board=9;action=display;threadid=5177
My understanding is that if you do the process wrong you make soap instead.
I am keenly interested in this and intend to experiment with this in the future.
So many hobbies and so little time.
I created a sample batch last night. You are correct that if you are not careful and use too much NaOH you can definately create soap. :o The process is pretty straight forward however.
Joe
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Currently I have about the following conditions
15°F (-9°C)
Fair conditions
Humidity: 54%
Barometer: 30.19" (Falling)
Wind: 0 mph CALM (0 kph)
Visibility: 10.00 miles
UV Index: 0 (Low)
Feb. 20, 03:47:34 UTC
Feb. 19, 10:47:34 PM EST
Feb. 19, 09:47:34 PM CST
Feb. 19, 08:47:34 PM MST
Feb. 19, 07:47:34 PM PST
Feb. 19, 06:47:34 PM AKST
Feb. 19, 05:47:34 PM HAST
The Sunset at 5:32 PM EST
If I had produced some bio-diesel as joeflsts has accomplished, I would do the following experiment. I would take 1 ounce of both regular diesel and bio-diesel and place them in separate 6 ounce (or more) disposable metal pans outside in an open area. After a few hours, I would then return and observe the viscosity of the contents of both pans. I would then attempt to light them with a long nosed lighter. The lighter would be like the ones used to ignite propane cook stoves. I would observe the flammability. So, joeflsts, if you have similar conditions of no wind and below freezing temperatures, you could also do this experiment. From what I know about bio-diesel I hypothesize the following. I expect the bio-diesel to be more viscous (possibly congealed). I expect the bio-diesel to be hard to ignite (maybe very difficult). So joeflsts, Jiro, lemonoman, and david that would suggest that pure bio-diesel might not be a good fuel for Canada, which is north of my location. My understanding is that bio-diesel is routinely mixed with regular diesel to prevent this congealing. This still saves on the amount of regular diesel used.
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Currently I have about the following conditions
15°F (-9°C)
Fair conditions
Humidity: 54%
Barometer: 30.19" (Falling)
Wind: 0 mph CALM (0 kph)
Visibility: 10.00 miles
UV Index: 0 (Low)
Feb. 20, 03:47:34 UTC
Feb. 19, 10:47:34 PM EST
Feb. 19, 09:47:34 PM CST
Feb. 19, 08:47:34 PM MST
Feb. 19, 07:47:34 PM PST
Feb. 19, 06:47:34 PM AKST
Feb. 19, 05:47:34 PM HAST
The Sunset at 5:32 PM EST
If I had produced some bio-diesel as joeflsts has accomplished, I would do the following experiment. I would take 1 ounce of both regular diesel and bio-diesel and place them in separate 6 ounce (or more) disposable metal pans outside in an open area. After a few hours, I would then return and observe the viscosity of the contents of both pans. I would then attempt to light them with a long nosed lighter. The lighter would be like the ones used to ignite propane cook stoves. I would observe the flammability. So, joeflsts, if you have similar conditions of no wind and below freezing temperatures, you could also do this experiment. From what I know about bio-diesel I hypothesize the following. I expect the bio-diesel to be more viscous (possibly congealed). I expect the bio-diesel to be hard to ignite (maybe very difficult). So joeflsts, Jiro, lemonoman, and david that would suggest that pure bio-diesel might not be a good fuel for Canada, which is north of my location. My understanding is that bio-diesel is routinely mixed with regular diesel to prevent this congealing. This still saves on the amount of regular diesel used.
Your hypothesis is correct in that Biodiesel doesn't stand up well in cold weather. In fact here we have been below freezing all weekend and I saw first hand the result to biodiesel. It congealed and would be useless if left in this state. Mixing it would be okay if the diesel didn't congeal as well. I know that in Northern Maine it is common to mix regular diesel with kerosene to eliminate this problem.
Joe
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Good point about Kerosene - that had slipped my mind. I was relying too much on discussions of the commercial use where the temperatures do not go as low as Canada or Maine.
joeflsts - I wonder if ethanol would make a good fuel thinner?
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Dont they usually use Tolulene as a thinner for fuels, evil stuff though, creates probs with engines.
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I asked about ethanol because it also is created from plant materials.
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yeah. It's also fairly good at dissolving oils and such, in addition to being flammable and having a low melting point. Ethanol it sometimes added to gasoline ('gasahol') so it may be valuble as a biodiesal thinner.... :-\
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Good point about Kerosene - that had slipped my mind. I was relying too much on discussions of the commercial use where the temperatures do not go as low as Canada or Maine.
joeflsts - I wonder if ethanol would make a good fuel thinner?
I'm not sure about ethanol. I do know that there isn't a real additive other than kerosene right now that I'm aware of that works as well during cold weather. In my reserch I have seen different grades (i.e. B20, B50, B100) that indicate the percent of bio in the mix with tradtional. I have focused primarily on B100 and not the others.
Joe
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Joeflsts –
If you are experimenting with bio-diesel and have the time – it would be interesting to see if ethanol will prevent congealing of bio-diesel.
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Something to ponder!
How many acres of land would be needed to grow plants that produce oil if a family unit uses 20000 gallons per year of bio-diesel for transportation and home heating?
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Licensing
Through all my readings about bio-diesel, I do not recollect a discussion of licensing. But, given the way government agencies work, I bet there are some regulations or laws that apply. This would apply to people in many countries. Of course this might not be by direct regulation, but rather by and associated process. For instance it is not necessarily illegal here to make ethanol, but transporting over a certain amount may be considered under the regulations of hazardous materials or making over a certain amount without paying alcohol tax may be illegal. I had this discussion with someone who used to work for an energy department and he insisted that you needed a permit to make bio-diesel in our home state. He was probably talking about making commercially (for sale to others). One wonders how many of us citizen scientist are violating law or regulation when doing chemistry experiments that do not involve drugs, weapons or explosives. We know that in at least one USA State there are laws regulating chemistry glassware. I would expect that Canada has some odd regulations or laws as well.
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Joeflsts –
If you are experimenting with bio-diesel and have the time – it would be interesting to see if ethanol will prevent congealing of bio-diesel.
I will check on this this week. I will submit my findings after I have experimented with this a little. I plan to test two formulas: 1 with ethanol as the base alcohol and one with methanol.
Joe
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My dad owns his own business (selling furnish to large corporations and other businesses). For him to start his business he had to file with the state of New Hampshire. He received a tax I.D. number and he said they called it incorporating. Atleast in my state you have to register with the state. If your making it for personal use you may not need anything. I would check with your local governments about a gasoline tax. This may be considered gasoline in some areas.
If you live in the U.S. check out:
http://www.firstgov.gov/
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I doubt you have to do all the process “constant thinker” talks about if you are running a lemonade stand, but you never know. In the States I know about, you do have to register your business name if you do not want someone to steal it. If you go national you might want to create a Trademark.