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Offline cyberdot38

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Amidation Reaction
« on: October 29, 2007, 06:45:19 PM »
I have been working on this equation since 1pm Eastern. Now I have a huge headache.

NH2CH2COOH + NH2CHCOOH  w/heat  ?
                            |
-------------------CH3


I know that the OH from one, plus and O from the other forms the H2O.  Then after loosing to form the water, the two join together where the OH is removed. What confuses me is the leftover "O"!  I tried using a subscript 2 in front, but I think that is totally wrong. If you can direct me in the right direction perhaps I can figure out what to do next.

A big thank you to the person who lends me a hand.


Offline Sev

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2007, 07:06:53 PM »
Quote
I know that the OH from one, plus and O from the other forms the H2O. 
Do you mean H?  Not sure if I understand your question, looks like a classic dehydration giving amide bond.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peptide_bond

Offline cyberdot38

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2007, 07:36:46 PM »
This is the general equation we were given:

-COOH + NH3  using heat results is H2O + -C double bond O, N <--attach the N to the C though.

If I could type in the equations as I have them written, perhaps they would make more sense.  Here is a different equation that I already figured out. Perhaps this one will show you what I am trying to do.

                                     
CH3COOH + CH3NHCH3   -heat-   H2O  +  CH3C double bond O above the C, then NCH3 
                                                                                                              |
                                                                                                            CH3

Can you understand any of this? 
       

Offline Sev

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2007, 07:59:10 PM »


Is that what you mean?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 08:59:01 PM by Sev »

Offline cyberdot38

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2007, 08:08:06 PM »
Yes, the only difference is the radicals have been replaced with CH3 and so on.  I was hoping someone would see what I was talking about, so they can put my previous equation together. Are you able to do so?

Offline agrobert

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2007, 08:28:47 PM »
This is a generalized amide bond formation as shown above.  Those are not radicals, they are R groups meaning that they can be any substituent that is reasonable, including dimethyl amine.
In the realm of scientific observation, luck is only granted to those who are prepared. -Louis Pasteur

Offline Sev

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2007, 08:32:59 PM »
RCOOH +H2NR → R(CO)NHR + H2O.

If that isn't what you mean, I don't know.

Offline agrobert

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2007, 08:51:21 PM »
acetic acid + dimethyl amine --> N,N-dimethylacetamide + water

CH3COOH + HN(CH3)2 --> CH3C(O)N(CH3)2 + H2O
In the realm of scientific observation, luck is only granted to those who are prepared. -Louis Pasteur

Offline cyberdot38

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2007, 09:04:03 PM »
NH2CH2COOH + NH2CHCOOH  w/heat  ?
                            |
-------------------CH3

This is the equation.  Is this the solution?

CH3COOH + HN(CH3)2 --> CH3C(O)N(CH3)2 + H2O

They don't look the same to me.

Offline agrobert

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2007, 09:10:49 PM »
Ok I get it now.

Glycine + Alanine --> GLY-ALA + H2O

H2NCH2COOH + H2NCH(CH3)COOH

-->

-O(O)CCH2NHC(O)CH(CH3)NH3+  OR  HO(O)CCH2NHC(O)CH(CH3)NH2 + H2O

But you really should be able to figure this out from your text.

This is similar

http://homepages.ius.edu/GKIRCHNE/peptide.jpg

In the realm of scientific observation, luck is only granted to those who are prepared. -Louis Pasteur

Offline cyberdot38

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2007, 09:14:40 PM »
O(O)CCH2NHC(O)CH(CH3)NH3+

Thanks for helping, would it be possible for you to explain how you got this answer?

Offline agrobert

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2007, 09:20:34 PM »
The acid group (-COOH) easily donates a proton (Bronsted Acid) to become (-COO-) and the amide group (-NH2) easily accepts this proton (Bronsted Base) and the salt is formed in solution to beome (-NH3+)

Check this out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwitterion
In the realm of scientific observation, luck is only granted to those who are prepared. -Louis Pasteur

Offline cyberdot38

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2007, 09:24:08 PM »
I SEE!!! ;)  That's so great....Thanks for your brain picking.  You are awsome.

Offline ultrashogun

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2007, 07:48:35 AM »
This reaction can procede to form longer chains.

Offline AWK

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Re: Amidation Reaction
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2007, 08:22:01 AM »
First of all, the reaction can proceed in two main ways:
Ala + Gly = Ala-Gly
or Gly + Ala = Gly-Ala
but also such side reactions are possible:
Ala + Ala = Ala-Ala
Gly + Gly = Gly-Gly
During this reaction proceeded without protective groups the next step is a cyclization rather then polymerization -
both Ala-Gly and Gly-Ala form diketopiperazines cyclo-Ala-Gly
AWK

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