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Topic: Regarding the effect of non-polar organic solvents on silicone.  (Read 9846 times)

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Offline shivashanti

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I am a stage 4 lymphoma patient in a state that allows for medicinal "plant" extracts  to be prescribed by my physician.  the extractions are accomplished (primarily) by using a polar nonpolar organic solvent.  commonly the solvent of choice is medical grade n-butane.  lately i am informed that the butane is evaporated upon a pad of silicone material, similar (but not identical to) a silpat baking mat.  for the past weeks i have been searching for a direct answer to the question:
is my extract contaminated by silicone, dissolved within the polar nonpolar solvent?

my last trip into a chemistry classroom was sometime during the nixon administration, but i do know how to do a google/Scirus search and i still cannot get a direct answer to what i thought was a simple question.  so far i have found that butane is classified as "D" incompatible with silicone.  as far as i can tell this is due to the swelling which occurs when organic polar nonpolar solvents interact with silicone.  which makes it an unsuitible choice for equipment gaskets/seals etc..
it seems as if the swelling is temporary and lasts until the solvent has evaporated, also i do not find anything stating that silicone is actually DISSOLVED in any part by the solvent.

direct searching the question takes me onto websites for illegal activity in which teenagers debate rumor and say all sorts of uninformed things.  I am hoping someone here will help with a direct and scientific response.  does any silicone DISSOLVE into an organic polar nonpolar solvent?  

[MOD Edit:  correct a few typos, at poster's request]

« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 08:50:01 AM by Arkcon »

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Regarding the effect of polar organic solvents on silicone.
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 09:43:28 PM »
Your question is a little bit muddled:  n-butane is a low boiling solvent, but its about as non-polar as they come.  So that bit of information is incorrect, and make me think your source of information is unreliable.  Proper quality solvents should be kept away from soft elastomers, so why it would be evaporated off a slipat pad, I don't understand.  If I needed n-butane for an extraction, it would be stored in a pressure tank, and piped into the reaction vessel with a tubing made of a solvent compatible material.  Furthermore, if something is evaporated, anything dissolved in it is left behind.  I'd ignore the information you get from the kiddie crowd.  An extract prepared according to your state's regulations is likely prepared with your safety in mind.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline shivashanti

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Typo
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 12:42:02 AM »
my darn phone did the auto correct thing and i didnt realize it until your post, soooo everywhere i typed nonpolar...says polar.  i would just delete/edit the post...if i knew how to do that.  i have been let down by technology once again. oh well.

i do in fact understand that butane is highly non-polar sorry for the confusion.  
the reason for the silicone pad is that the unit they use is called a tamisium extractor.  its a closed system and recaptures the solvent.  what is left in the final chamber is sticky and hard to remove, so they line the chamber with the silicone pad.  when the pad is removed it goes into a vacuum chamber where it is slowly heated under vacuum.  the extraction comes smoothly off the silicone without the need to scrape or re-dissolve in etoh.

i would be happy if a mod could help me edit the post, i am mostly blind and cannot see all the little buttons on the editor, perhaps there is something i missed.

Offline DrCMS

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Re: Regarding the effect of polar organic solvents on silicone.
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 06:17:34 AM »
Why are you concerned about silicones?

Many many studies have shown them to be biologically inert and safe. 

There is NO reliable peer reviewed study from ANYWHERE is the world that has definitively linked ill health to silicones.

see this http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2012/07/silicone-safety-status-quo

Offline orgopete

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Re: Regarding the effect of non-polar organic solvents on silicone.
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2012, 12:42:32 PM »
On the other side of the question, why would one ingest butane? In what manner would or should it interact with the biological machinery causing, controlling, aiding, or limiting a lymphoma? It strikes me as to only having very weak interactions at best and virtually none at worst?

Tetrahydrofolate analogs have long been drug targets. These compounds are very polar with many atoms capable of strong drug-receptor targets. Ted (Edward C.) Taylor developed the antitumor agent Alimta, a tetrahydrofolate analog.
Author of a multi-tiered example based workbook for learning organic chemistry mechanisms.

Offline shivashanti

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Re: Regarding the effect of polar organic solvents on silicone.
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2012, 02:08:40 PM »
Why are you concerned about silicones?

Many many studies have shown them to be biologically inert and safe.  

There is NO reliable peer reviewed study from ANYWHERE is the world that has definitively linked ill health to silicones.

see this http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2012/07/silicone-safety-status-quo
yes i came across that very article, thank you.   some of the extract is ingested orally, and i have no concern at all about ingesting silicone in this manner.  
however, some extract is combusted or vaporized, and therein lies my concern.

On the other side of the question, why would one ingest butane? In what manner would or should it interact with the biological machinery causing, controlling, aiding, or limiting a lymphoma? It strikes me as to only having very weak interactions at best and virtually none at worst?


i think you may misunderstand the process i described.
 butane and propane (heaxane as well to some degree) are popular non-polar solvents used to strip a resinous matrix of active and inactive compounds from vegetal material.  the resulting resinous product is purged completely of residual solvent before use.(under vacuum or with extended heat exposure)
its not the butane i wish to interact with...but the resinous matrix.

----
thank you for your kind replies, I have also considered, that if i cannot get a straight answer to "does silicone migrate into my extract?"  there may be a diagnostic test i could have a lab perform to detect its presence (or not).  any ideas there?

i can cite multiple sources that say something similar to the following:
http://www.chemiedidaktik.uni-wuppertal.de/disido_cy/en/info/structure/rubber.htm
Quote
Nonpolar solvents, by contrast, cause extensive swelling. However, the original properties are restored when the solvent has evaporated.


the 4 sources i found all say similar things and seem to imply that there is no dissolution of silicone...just the physical temporary swelling and distortion.
i just cant find a plain and straightforward statement to that effect.

Offline shivashanti

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Re: Regarding the effect of non-polar organic solvents on silicone.
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2012, 02:37:21 PM »
Well...a poster on another site emailed me with this link
http://www.silicone.jp/e/catalog/pdf/rubber_e.pdf

under the heading "resistance to oils, solvents, and other chemicals"
Quote
Silicone rubber also has excellent resistance to
solvents and other chemicals. It is essentially
unaffected by polar organic compounds (aniline,
alcohol, etc.) or dilute acids or bases, with the
increase in volume due to swelling in the range of only
10%–15%. Silicone rubber does swell in non-polar
organic compounds like benzene, toluene and
gasoline; but unlike most organic rubbers, it does not
decompose or dissolve
, and will return to its former
state when the solvent is removed. Silicone rubber is,
however, adversely affected by strong acids and
bases, so it should not be used where it will come in
contact with such chemicals.

thanks again all for your help, I have much preferred the PM's and posts on this refreshingly scientific forum.  I think this satisfies my curiosity.

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