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Chemistry Forums for Students => Undergraduate General Chemistry Forum => Topic started by: metallurgy on April 13, 2021, 01:20:01 AM

Title: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: metallurgy on April 13, 2021, 01:20:01 AM
If we react 80-85% Na2SO4 (with NaF, Na2CO3 and NaCl impurities) industrial dust with water then what would be happen?
Title: Re: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: Borek on April 13, 2021, 02:58:04 AM
And what do you expect?

You combine mixture of solid salts with water. What is the most likely outcome?
Title: Re: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: metallurgy on April 13, 2021, 04:37:34 AM
Quote from: Borek on April 13, 2021, 02:58:04 AM
And what do you expect?

You combine mixture of solid salts with water. What is the most likely outcome?

The question was intended to ask about safety outcomes. Like if there is a risky/dangerous gases appears or not?
Title: Re: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: Orcio_87 on April 13, 2021, 04:48:18 AM
@metallurgy Nothing will happen, but solution (water) could be harmful if drinked by somebody (large doses of sodium fluoride are harmful).
Title: Re: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: metallurgy on April 13, 2021, 05:21:56 AM
Quote from: Orcio_Dojek on April 13, 2021, 04:48:18 AM
@metallurgy Nothing will happen, but solution (water) could be harmful if drinked be somebody (large doses of sodium fluoride are harmful).

Okay , thanks for the info, what about carginogenity? etc. health affects if inhaled via breathing the gases? Maybe we have to purchase a fume cupboard and do it inside of it?
Title: Re: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: Orcio_87 on April 13, 2021, 06:01:22 AM
Na2SO4, NaF, Na2CO3 and NaCl are not related to be carcinogenic and they don't produce any gases in reaction with water.

If any gases are present they may come from other impurities (f. e. metallic sodium will produce H2), but it is hard to say without knowledge of industrial process.

As of fume cupboard - you can always do it outdoors instead.
Title: Re: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: Borek on April 13, 2021, 06:04:44 AM
A lot depends on the exact composition. Are these all components of the mixture?

Check MSDS for each salt present, choose the worst case to design your procedures.
Title: Re: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: metallurgy on April 13, 2021, 08:33:09 AM
Quote from: Borek on April 13, 2021, 06:04:44 AM
A lot depends on the exact composition. Are these all components of the mixture?
Plus low amounts of borax pentahydrate (aq) added to this industrial waste dust (Na2SO4 with impurities). It became like a suspension.

Here is the chemical reactions for generation of this industrial waste dust:
Quote
2 NaHCO3 + chaleur → Na2CO3 + CO2 + H2O
2 NaHCO3 + SO2 + 1/2 O2 → Na2SO4 + H2O + 2 CO2
NaHCO3 + HCl → NaCl + H2O + CO2
NaHCO3 + HF → NaF + H2O + CO2
Title: Re: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: Orcio_87 on April 13, 2021, 04:04:45 PM
Quote
2 NaHCO3 + chaleur → Na2CO3 + CO2 + H2O
2 NaHCO3 + SO2 + 1/2 O2 → Na2SO4 + H2O + 2 CO2
NaHCO3 + HCl → NaCl + H2O + CO2
NaHCO3 + HF → NaF + H2O + CO2

If temperature drops maybe some amounts of SO2, SO3, HCl and HF can absorb into waste dust (Na2SO4), and (after adding this to water) they will react with Na2CO3 releasing CO2, but CO2 is not harmful.

And - waste dust will also contain NaHCO3 as it is hard to obtain 100 % conversion.
Title: Re: Non-purified Na2SO4 plus water? What would be happen?
Post by: metallurgy on April 14, 2021, 12:48:00 AM
Quote from: Orcio_Dojek on April 13, 2021, 04:04:45 PM
Quote
2 NaHCO3 + chaleur → Na2CO3 + CO2 + H2O
2 NaHCO3 + SO2 + 1/2 O2 → Na2SO4 + H2O + 2 CO2
NaHCO3 + HCl → NaCl + H2O + CO2
NaHCO3 + HF → NaF + H2O + CO2

If temperature drops maybe some amounts of SO2, SO3, HCl and HF can absorb into waste dust (Na2SO4), and (after adding this to water) they will react with Na2CO3 releasing CO2, but CO2 is not harmful.

And - waste dust will also contain NaHCO3 as it is hard to obtain 100 % conversion.

Okay. Do you think is there some possibility if we react this waste dust (%80-85 Sodium Sulfate) with some chemicals (i dont know) and it would be create salable product for the industry?