Chemical Forums
Specialty Chemistry Forums => Citizen Chemist => Topic started by: RLA_100 on September 27, 2004, 12:34:48 PM
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Hi,
I'm a 2nd year college student majoring in chemistry. How does the outlook look in the next few years for jobs in the chemistry industry? I live in Hawaii, however plan on moving to the mainland United States after I graduate. I plan on getting my PhD in chemistry.
I feel as if I’m going out on a limb majoring in chemistry, because I usually receive high marks in the humanities classes, without as much effort. I really enjoy chemistry though. And I’ve wanted to be a chemist since I was in grade school. I'm a certified computer repair technician (worked for the big companies). So me starting off new in the science industry am a bit risky - but I feel a career, as a research scientist would be more fulfilling for me.
So basically i'm just wondering what are some of your jobs? Do you feel the pay I adequate? What the career everything you expected? Thank you very much.
Rio
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From what I hear, the chemistry job market is down a bit since there were a couple of big mergers last year. However, I think that employees in the chemical industry routinely have a much lower unemployment rate than the rest of the population. There may be some dependence on what Congress decides to do about allowing drugs to come from Canada, etc. and whether or not they decide to heavily subsidize drugs sold in the US. The former would probably be bad, the latter good, in terms of the industry. I'll be looking to get a job in industry in a few years and I'm really not that worried about it. I am hoping that I will hit the market at the time of an upswing and not a downturn (since the downturn is now, apparently).
If you're interested in academics, the market is more consistent, but smaller. There are far fewer jobs to be had and professors tend to stay in them for a long time. Some years there will be a few positions, other years not. For most any academic position you will have to do a postdoc after your PhD. A postdoc will help for industry too, but it's not really the "requirement" that it is for academics.
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In bussiness, even Chemistry, it boils down to who you know.
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Have you ever had a second thought, or wished you majored/majoring in something else?
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Personally, I have not. I really enjoy chemistry and I think it's just fortunate for me that I have a good chance to get a very good job doing what I like.
One good alternative would be chemical engineering though. I don't think that as much education is required so you don't have to necessarily put up with grad school, etc. (although you can and it probably helps).
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Is a BS in Chemistry all you need to become a Chemical Engineer? A lot of the job listings on monster.com just seem to require a BS in Chemical Engineering or Chemistry.
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I dont think a BS Chemistry would be ABET-accreditated as an equivalent to a BS Chemical Engineering Degree. Chemistry and Chemical Engineering are two very different field. In fact, chemistry takes a very small weightage in a chemical engineering degree.
In the end, it depends what your employer is looking for. It hardly matters if u have a chemistry or chemical engineering degree if your job scope is sales (for example). I know a BS Chemistry qualifies for admission to a MS Chemical Engineering..
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Just a few quick comments:
1. Go with what you love; don't go for tons of money--you won't be as happy.
2. Out of your three choices, chemistry, humanities and computer repair technician, chemistry is the least risky choice. You will float from job to job making above minimum wage with no career advancement unless you're lucky if you're in the computer repair business, and you'll be lucky to have a job at McDonald's as a humanities major.
3. Sadly, chemistry requires a lot of education for little returns; a BS in chemical engineering will start you off with almost as much money as a PhD in chemistry, and generally a BS or even and MS in chemisty won't get you s#*$. You pretty much have to have a PhD if you want to do anything cool. If you've got a BS, you can work at Sigma Aldrich and melt salt all day or be a janitor for Monsanto or Merck. If you have an MS, you get to run an HPLC all day, or take IRs of shampoos for quality control. The truth is that no one is hiring bench chemists with BSs anymore, which is a shame. If you want to do research, you pretty much need a PhD.
4. This should all be taken with a grain of salt, as I'm slightly jaded, and all of this is just my opinion.
5. Chemical engineers know and do very little chemisty on average. They do some difficult flow-control problems, but not much if anything in the way of real chemical research. If you become a chemist, you generally figure out how to do things in the first place. You can work at a college or university, nearly picking your location from a number of smaller schools, although the market for that is difficult at best right now. You can also work in industry, like for DuPont, or another major chemical manufacturer, or you can work for some really interesting analytical or consulting businesses. One that I know of is www.chemir.com They do some really interesting work. You might also be able to work for the government, too, at one of the national labs, or perhaps at a military base, if that's what you want to do. Or perhaps for the EPA or something like that.
Hope this rambling helps you. I got into chemistry because it was fun for me and I enjoyed it, not because I was good at it. I was always much better at math or Physics, but I never enjoyed them as much, so I went where the fire was (literally and figuratively). Best of luck to you.
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hmx912x what part of the field are you in?
I'd really like to do research. Although only having a BS in Chemical Engineering and earning as much as a PhD in chemistry is alluring.
I actually run a fairly sucessful computer repair business right now (for the time i put in), only working about 7 hours a week and going to school full time. I don't despise my job but i'd really rather do something more meaningful.
What do you guys think of M.D/PhD programs?
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I'm in organic synthesis, although I'm not sure where I'll truly wind up. I don't know much about the MD/PhD programs, so maybe someone else can help you out.
Honestly, I really enjoy doing research. I like it more than teaching, although I enjoy that a lot, too. Money to me is just a means to an end, and although I want enough to live comfortably, I don't really need more than that. I'd be all right with it if a bunch of it fell in my lap, but I also don't want to waste my efforts in a job that I don't love trying to get more of it. You know, if your computer business works out for you, maybe you could keep it up while you begin your grad work, or even after once you get out into the field, both as a means of payment, and also as a fall back in case you decide that the grad school or industry isn't for you. You could drop it any time, but you'd also have a fall back, if you can keep up both at the same time.
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RLA_100 are you saying you have a business that houses you, feeds you, pays tuition, and only requires 7 hours per week of your time?
Regards,
Bill
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Hey Guys.
Im sorry to dig up a topic that is roughly 4 months old, but I am new and was thinking of posting a similar topic.
As I said, I am new here to the forum. Im currently an undergrad pursuing a BS in Chemistry. However, I'm not sure where I could really go with it, or what to do with it. Reading the above posts, it scares me that there is so much work involved with a chem degree, but there is nothing to be rewarded...however...
My uncle graduated from the same college I am at (Benedictine University in Lisle, IL) with a BioChem degree. He started at quality control, moved on to plant manager, Regional..etc.. and now is president. He's been trying to give me advice on what to do with the degree. However, what he says is different from you guys. He is saying that there are plenty of Quality Control jobs to be had. Although the pay isnt fit for a king (starts from 30-40K in Chicago area) theyre there. Otherwise, he says you can do R&D in a lab all day, and that pays slightly more. Other than that..im not sure what else is out there.
What returns in pay were you guys looking to get once you graduated? What types of jobs were you looking to score?
Personally, If i end up taking a QC job starting at 40K a year, thats ok. Then again, I dont know how Chem majors were doing in the years before. I have no interest in being a Chemical Engineer, nor do I feel like immediately pursuing a MS or PhD.
So fellas, what are my options, and what do they pay? (not that I'm particularly concerned about that, as my future in-laws have promised to always have our back)
Thanks!
Jim
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get a chem eng phd.. it pays so much better.. your bs chemistry qualifies for entry into a chem eng phd program anyway.
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If Im not mistaken, another moderator on the forum said that chemical engineering has not much to do with Chemistry itself anyways? Not sure on this, what is your opinion? Im not much for Engineering anyways.
Then again, what does 'good money' mean to you?
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I think "that moderator" is me. LOL. chemical engineeirng hardly deals with chemistry on the whole, but there are certain aspects of chemical engineering that are more chemistry than engineering. transport phenomena is a relatively small section in physical chemistry but it's the biggest thing for chem eng. chemical thermodynamics is an important study in chemical engineering as well.
The average starting pay for a chemistry PhD in the USA is $50000pa whereas it's $74000pa for a chemical engineering PhD. Moreover, there is so much less Chem Eng PhD holders in the market than chemistry PhD holders. Chemical Engineers are increasingly involved in the R&D of new drugs, biological processes, etc. The big difference in pay translates to "good money" for me.
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Geo, where did you get those numbers? I think that they should be higher than that....
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Movies: i got those number from my biochemistry lecturer who finished his PhD in USA in 2000. What are the latest figures?
If anyone thinks I'm biased, I study chemical engineering at university FYI.
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The numbers do seem a bit low, but Chemical Engineers always make more money then Chemists.
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Yeah, I wasn't questioning the order there Geo, I just thought that PhD chemists were more in the range of 70-80k (in industry, not academics) whereas ChemE PhDs were more like 80-90k. I'm not certain though and I don't know where to find the latest numbers. The ACS might list them, but I'm not an ACS member....
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You should become an ACS member. ::) Let me refer you that way I get entered into a lottery type thing.
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Well go ahead and refer me then! I've been meaning to sign up anyway.
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You should become an ACS member. ::) Let me refer you that way I get entered into a lottery type thing.
LOL. Mitch always like abit of perk in doing things.
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holy cow, this thread picked up again!
For those currently in the phD program, how is it? excruciatingly hard? how about the MS in Chem program?
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For me, my life is pretty much exclusively about doing lab work. I think that the investment ion time is worth it though. I've certainly learned a lot since being in grad school....
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I'm personally sick of grad school, but thats an other matter.
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Hi Everybody,
I just came across this forum tonight, and I like it! Anyways, maybe my recent experiences will give you an idea of what to expect.
I graduated with a B.S. in chemistry in 2003. I have had a tough year, largely because the job market is slim. I worked for a while as a QC chemist, but found that the schedule/job description was less than satisfactory. Now I am working as a QC chemist with a different company, and I am lot happier. The pay is nothing special, but not too bad for a fresh college grad. From what I can tell, jobs for B.S. chemists vary quite a bit. Obviously, you can't expect to be head of a research lab, but I do think you can make a decent career as chemist. As with anything, I think your success and happiness will depend on what you want and how hard you are willing to work.
I think I have been dissappointed because I haven't been offered many jobs, but I believe with even a year or two of experience things get easier.
My advice: Start looking early and try to find internships while you are in school. I don't believe a chemistry degree would be a mistake either way. You learn a lot, and most likely you will be able to find a job that utilizes your skills.
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And thought I'd make a quick comment. 50K is a bit low for a starting phd. Heck, I started at 52K, but that was mainly because I got my job through a headhunter (more like wallet-hunter). The job market isn't great, but it's much better than it was in the mid 90's when I was in gs. Mainly, it takes patience to find a job, but there are jobs out there now. I work with chem-e's, and many of them do plenty of chemistry, and some pretty cool stuff. It just depends on where you work, and what you're doing. I do think that their salaries are 10-15% higher on avg, but that's mainly anecdotal.
Cheers.
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Geodome, I wouldn't give advice on getting a Chem E PhD, especially since the poster said that he wasn't interested in ChemE. It seems that all you're after is money. If that is truly all you're after, then go into business. If not, then go with what you love.
Chem Es do make more money than chemists. Honestly, though, they're nothing but glorified mechanical engineers. In my experience, they do little chemistry, and a whole lotta flow rate problems and math. I'm in Chemistry because I love it. I love working in a lab.
Getting a PhD in chemistry is difficult, there is no question about that. It takes a tremendous amount of time. If you get a BS in chemistry, though, even though your job prospects may not be that great when you first get out (i.e., pretty much QC jobs and working for big chemical companies like Aldrich), you can get into a lot of different grad programs. If you're a decent (not even good or spectacular) chemist, you can get into most Materials Sceince PhD programs and be stellar because of your knowledge.
Anyway, the Chem PhD is truthfully a real b$*%(. It is a requirement for getting any faculty positions, and will help with becoming a director of a research/development team. Most of the job prospects depend on which type of chemistry that you go into. If you're in organic chem, you have a lot of prospects in the pharmaceutical industry, for example.
If you have any further or more specific questions, feel free to ask. I don't know if you're planning on pursuing a grad degree, or what your plans for your career are. What would you like to do? Where do you see yourself in 5-10 years?
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Thanks for the tips guys.
MonkeyGirl- how were you doing financially once you were fresh out of college with a BS in Chem? You said you landed a job in QC, which is EXACTLY what I plan to do. I just want to know what Im up against.
HMX- As far as going on down the road, I prefer to get a degree in Chemistry and utilize the knowledge in a skills specific job. Chemical Research is not really my thing, as I have no desire to seek out anything. I hear of people working to find solutions and answers to current conditions or problems, using their skills in chemistry, and that is not what I want to do.
Continuing education into the MS and PhD is not really for money, but rather to better my education. I think as Chemists that's what we're all really after. After all, Chemists deep down chose this because it intrigued them and they needed to find out why exactly it did that, how it works. Im interested to see what you know about utilizing a PhD in Organic Chemistry to move into Pharmaceuticals. what can you tell me about it?
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Actually, I try and stay as far away from pharma as I can. It bores me. I make energetic materials, and hope to work in that industry eventually.
I'm glad that you know what you want to do. That's a big help when deciding on a career. If you're looking for a QC job, you should be good with a BS or even a BA in chemistry.
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I'm not sure about your area, but in mine QC jobs pay somewhere around 28-35 K. I think it really depends where you work. Personally, I don't think a QC job will satisfy me, but it is a good start. I think you can make a decent salary if you get into management.
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Whoa! 28K? ouch!
What area are you from? Im in the Chicago area.
Thats a pretty good kick in the head. You go through 4 years of schooling, learn advance calculus, all the other stuff...and you get the same pay as some kid out of high school? damn, thats rough!
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Welcome to chemistry. A BS in Chem Eng will get you almost as much starting as a PhD in chemistry. Sad but true. Depends on if you like Chem E or not. If you love it, then you're set. If you love chem like me and don't like Chem E, then you have to decide whether or not to sell out and get the Chem E or to go with what you love.
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I'm in South Carolina, so you have to keep that in mind. I'm sure the cost of living is a bit higher in your area. I'm not saying 28K is good at all, but it is the reality around here. Like I said, this is in quality control. Some people make more, some less. You can easily live here on that much though, with some left to spare.
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actually, salary.com says SC cost of living is 16% lower.
Therefore, a 35K a year job here in Chicago equates to 29.4K over there. Makes sense, because thats what they generally pay around here.
I wonder how it is down south trying to find a job within chemistry though. My girlfriend is from New Orleans, LA and wants to move back after school. I dont know what my chances of finding work down there would be though.