Chemical Forums
Specialty Chemistry Forums => Citizen Chemist => Topic started by: Scratch- on April 05, 2004, 04:01:34 PM
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I read in another post somewhere around here that hydrogen peroxide will explode when mixed with metals. Since I have a pint of it in my chemical storage cabinet I am wondering about its properties (The bottle doesn’t say much and I’ve looked it up on the web) before I do *cough* something accidentally.
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is it pure peroxide or the hydrogen proxide you can buy at rite-aid?
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It is 3% hydrogen peroxide from publix. I'm guessing I would need to concentrate it for it to become dangerous, so it would be a slow reaction, what would it form?
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yeah, 3% won't do anything fun.
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How can I concentrate it? According to the bottle hydrogen peroxide breaks down in light and heat.
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We typically don't elaborate on explosives here. ::)
If you do become a Chemist, you'll learn the techniques of the trade soon enough.
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Hydrogen peroxide is used as an explosive? I'm not trying to blow up my garage, I just want to know if I can have a reaction between my 3% solution and a metal.
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only one way to find out. ;)
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Ahhh... I see where your going. Nothing toxic right? Well that’s kinda a silly question on my part, H2O2 and a metal will probably either form a hydroxide or an oxide right? I'm guessing oxide.
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I dont recommend trying this out.. cuz the heat from rxn betw metal and hydogen peroxide may cause the unreacted hydrogen peroxide to break down, giving u a dangerous mixture of hydrogen and oxygen :o
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Mn2+ cations catalyse a vigorous decomposition of hydrogen peroxide to water and oxygen.
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Well its did and done. I used copper and iron in separate containers, just a small amount. Then I added some 3% peroxide, the iron just bubbled some. The copper, although, seemed to slide right off the surface as soon as I put the H2O2 in, and started bubbling vigorously. Now I have a nearly clear vial with what looks like dust in the bottom, it didn’t even get warm during the reaction.
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Muhahaha I can get a stronger concentration of peroxide from this light stick here ;D. I could probably make a nice reaction with this! Lol, actually I don’t want to lose any of my hands/fingers before I even take my first chemistry class.
Although it might work well in my bazooka
<<<
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I dont recommend trying this out.. cuz the heat from rxn betw metal and hydogen peroxide may cause the unreacted hydrogen peroxide to break down, giving u a dangerous mixture of hydrogen and oxygen :o
Actually, when H2O2 breaks down in breaks apart into O2 and H2O. I'm almost 100% certain that it doesn't form hydrogen gas. What happens when you put a metal in a solution of hydrogen peroxide is that the metal has some ions on its surface which catalyses the breakdown. If the metal is easily oxidized, it will also react with the oxygen gas and water which is generated. This may increase the heat which will cause the reaction to proceed even faster, etc. etc. until there's an explosion due to rapid expansion of gasses, not due to a chemical reaction.
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oh yeah.. LOL.. u r right.. made a mistake in my haste..
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That’s odd... I haven’t been able to reproduce the strength of the reaction that I got the first time.
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That’s odd... I haven’t been able to reproduce the strength of the reaction that I got the first time.
Heh. If you're using the same bottle of peroxide, then chances are it has already reacted and there's little to none left. ;D
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Hydrogen peroxide in 3% concentration really isn't that dangerous. The H2O2 that is used in explosives and rocket fuels is around 90% and is very difficult to obtain. To a certain point, hydrogen peroxide can be concentrated by vacuum distillation, but I doubt many people here have access to the necessary equipment to do this safely if at all. Most chem labs (at least professional ones) have 30% hydrogen peroxide at least; this is a lot more dangerous and leaves pretty nasty white burns on the hand that sting for a few minutes at least (yes, I unfortunately speak from experience). The real problem is not reacting it with metals, but when it comes in contact with certain organic materials; although you can find illegal means for this on the internet, you need to know that this is incredibly dangerous and foolhardy. These materials aren't even touched by the military because they find them too dangerous.
Some interesting things to do with the 3% hydrogen peroxide, besides bleach your hair, is to use it as a co-dissolving agent in dilute hydrochloric acid (muratic acid) to make cool flame-colorants used in pyrotechnics (think copper chloride and copper oxychloride).
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You can concentrate your H2O2 by simply{Edited}
I was reading that H2O2 over 80% (I think) will have an self catalysed reaction with dust resulting in detonation :o
I haven't slept in 2 days so sorry if I've made any mistakes.
Edit: Sorry, we don't need the kid blowing himself up.
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Ah, what happened to allowing people the satisfaction of knowing dangerous information, and letting the foolish ones blow themselves up with it? Next we shouldn't tell people that you can get high off of sniffing permanent markers. Stop being Big Brother Mitch ::)
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This is an educational website not a bomb making website. :P
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Mitch did the right thing. Although people can find information on how to make drugs, bombs, poisons, and other such s#!& on the net, we don't need to be handing it out. Especially if it's wrong. That 80% hydrogen peroxide and dust isn't correct. It just spontaneously ignites. What else is wrong? Do you want someone coming back to your website saying 'I tried this and I blew my hands off', then realizing that you wrote something incorrectly and made the procedure even more unsafe than it was originally? If you're not worried about that, then let me tell you about my procedure for flame-drying nitroglycerin.
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After a certain % it isn't so easy to concentrate it further without the right equipment.
I understand what you're saying about the bombs and everything, but censoring concentrating H2O2? Instead of censoring something that is dangerous you could have just added a safety warning. I just forgot that this site is for the beginners and the experienced. I'm still a beginner in your eyes but learning couldn't hurt.
Even if the dust does just ignite, I still wouldn't want to be around it :p
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I missed the actual edited out part of the post and thought that it contained more than just concentration of the H2O2. I suppose that it's not that bad on its own, but it could be used for some pretty dumb things. One thing we definitely don't want is people posting how to make drugs, explosives, etc. It just doesn't fit the ideals of the forum. If people want to ask questions about these materials, we should answer them if they're of an academic nature, IMHO. Take a look at the thermite thread. There's a lot of bantering in there, but you won't see any references to compositions, how to ignite it, or anything like that.
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Educational discussions on certain explosive substances are okay as hmx said. If all safety information is described in excrutiating detail, and the preparations are exceedingly small scale, and someone experienced with the substance is relaying the information then it will be fine. Anything that doesn't meet our burden of proof for admission will be edited.
However peroxides are exceedingly dangerous, and even professionals are known to of had bad accidents with them.
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Educational discussions on certain explosive substances are okay as hmx said. If all safety information is described in excrutiating detail, and the preparations are exceedingly small scale, and someone experienced with the substance is relaying the information then it will be fine. Anything that doesn't meet our burden of proof for admission will be edited.
However peroxides are exceedingly dangerous, and even professionals are known to of had bad accidents with them.
Another one which we're bound to get questions on, especially after you realize how easy it is to get the substances off of the internet, is Nitrogen Triiodide. It's my favorite compound on earth and a big reason why I have an element collection. It's just that the danger with that stuff is extraordinarily high. (Since it's a high explosive).
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Sad but true. The really funny thing is that nitrogen triiodide (aka, ammonium triiodide) is actually one of the less dangerous of the high explosives that people could make--it usually decomposes on its own before much of it can accumulate. However, it can be a real menace in sufficient quantity.
I, for one, would like to not see any dangerous preparations or experiments posted here. My opinion is that those who are experienced enough to work with such compounds should have no need to ask their preparation on an internet newsgroup. Everything is out there in the chemical literature, provided you are experienced enough to know where to find it.
Although all chemistry is inherently dangerous, we have to draw a line somewhere. There is a great deal of discussion about this on pyrotechnics newsgroups and it is an interesting debate. As an admin on this group, though, I will censor any preparations of materials that I feel are above and beyond the dangers of ordinary chemistry.
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Heh, you don’t have to worry about me blowing my hands off, I do research before doing potentially dangerous reactions. I just worry about other people reading the posts here. ::)
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I understand Scratch, but in the end detailed descriptions on the preparations of high explosives is just not within the current mission of the website. And will most likely never be. This is an educational chemistry website afterall, not a resource for future columbine bombers, terrorists, or even worse THE INCOMPETENT! ::)
I'll be adding a few lines in the Staff FAQ requesting that if any moderator catches preparations for explosives on their forums that the post should be immediately edited. Again, not all explosives are created equal, for example: I think there is a pretty detailed method for producing small chunks of Sodium somewhere in the forums.
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Isn’t sodium more of an incendiary than an explosive?
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Well sodium CAN explode in sufficient quantity. Did you see the thing on the sodium party? Looks dangerous. I'd have to agree with mitch, that posting the "how-to" on dangerous reactions is a bad idea. As for the thermite thread, I didn't ask how to ignite or prep it for a reason, cause I already know and thats something that needs to be researched if you're bent on doing it.
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Well, anyone who is careful enough to handle explosives can probably find out the how-to stuff without our help. Speaking of witch, I’m designing a vacuum chamber for handling sodium, potassium, phosphorus etc.
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You'd best be suited by designing an inert gas chamber to handle Na, K, etc. The big problem with them is that, even though they're explosive with water, they leave behind a lot of nasty chemicals, like NaOH, etc. You don't want to breathe that or get it in your eyes--the strong base can burn your retina out.
Although you say that you do your own research, as a HS student with no chemistry training and no access to a university library or better, I'd say that you're asking for at least a bit of trouble when working with energetic or hazardous materials. I hope you don't hurt yourself.
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I will take safety precautions, and only make the stuff in small amounts.