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General Forums => Generic Discussion => Topic started by: The Tao on December 26, 2006, 02:00:21 AM
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Hello!
For this post, I would certainly consider atheism/agnosticism valid religions, so don't hesitate to say so!
I follow the Buddhist religion, and have been for a few years now. I meditate daily and occasionally read the sutras, but have not visited a temple yet, as there are none for about 200 miles. Contrary to public knowledge, Buddhists do not believe in God, and Buddha is not a deity or God himself.
While I'm certainly not trying to convert anyone by any means, if you don't know anything about Buddhism, perhaps you should do some research? You might find this religion to be very suprising.
"Be still my mind, and know that I am god."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism
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Well the second person to respond to this thread is also a Buddhist. My Buddhism probably arose out of my general interest in Asian culture, but I found it preferable to other religions. I'm not entirely too far into it; I seldom meditate and have little to no access to sutras or a temple.
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I am Christian. I was raised Baptist, but I am considering switching churches because I doin't agree with many things that go on there.
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What about MMI - Me, Myself and I?
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What about MMI - Me, Myself and I?
You worship yourself? ;)
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Well the second person to respond to this thread is also a Buddhist. My Buddhism probably arose out of my general interest in Asian culture, but I found it preferable to other religions. I'm not entirely too far into it; I seldom meditate and have little to no access to sutras or a temple.
It is the largest step one must take...
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I am Christian. I was raised Baptist, but I am considering switching churches because I doin't agree with many things that go on there.
I was also raised Baptist, but that ended a long time ago for about the same reason listed above. While I'm interested in religion, I've been around too many crazies here to really have faith in anything--I'm an atheist.
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Well what I find interesting in the dharmic religions, such as Hinduism, Taoism, or Buddhism, is that they don't quite pray to Gods in the traditional sense. For example, in Hinduism, you can reach "heaven" (which is temporary) without even believing in God.
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ya, i am a christian, methodist, i really do not like the "shout'n the house down" styles of many baptist and penecostal churches and others, i rather like a layed back church service, but since i also love science, it kinda puts you in a really weird perspective.
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Im Roman Catholic, born in Italy, so.... But now I live in America and well since Buddhism has been mention I was Buddhist for a while, meditating and such, but at the same time Catholic, it may sound weird but i believe that you can believe in two things, especially when Buddhism isn't on an actual god but the Buddha that is reincarnated. So I meditated, prayed, but after a while I stoped meditating. Now I'm mostly Catholic but I have never had anything against other religions, many of my freinds being Atheists or Agnostics, they do try to convince to me there is no God, but I won't budge.
But I must say that I do not agree with Catholic belief that if you do not believe on God then you go to hell, a good God would not do that, since even my freinds, they may not believe in God but they are still good people.
So ya...thats my religion, a mix of buddhism and catholicism
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My religion is the golden rule. All I need, all I care about.
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if you do not believe on God then you go to hell, a good God would not do that
Why do you assume God is good?
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if you do not believe on God then you go to hell, a good God would not do that
Why do you assume God is good?
Because it is "dog" spelled backwards, and my dog is the greatest doggy in the world. He is very good!
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if you do not believe on God then you go to hell, a good God would not do that
Why do you assume God is good?
Because it is "dog" spelled backwards, and my dog is the greatest doggy in the world. He is very good!
Hmm... I don't know about that one... I don't really like dogs.
According to my friends I have the most hilarious fear of them ::)
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I'm an atheist.
You're just gunning for irony aren't you. ;)
I'm a "catholic." Really though that's just to appease my grandmother.
I believe in science. If someone gave a good solid proof with good experimental evidence for any religion, then I'd gladly go to that religion.
My philosophy is, "show me the proof first, believe second."
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Consider this:
Any proof must be based on logic. A valid proof will consist of a series of logical statements all linked together. This forms a network of statements that should not be able to be contradicted by another logical argument.
Such a proof can be seen as an absolute truth, but only as far as the capacity of truth in the human mind. If the mind is limited in its recognition of truth, then all our proofs are valid only to ourselves, as humans (These limitations could be the result of our physical composition and the interaction thereof with the environment. Something that we have no control over.). There is no proof or divine axiom that shows that humans have the potential to produce and comprehend intra- and extra-universal logic. Also, if there exists a universal truth that humans cannot perceive due to our limitations, then man can never know absolute truth and thus never reach the apex of enlightenment.
Since all religions have their foundations cast by human philosophy, the above argument overthrows the idea that any religion contains absolute truth, but it errs on the side of recognising GOD since only a GOD could have placed such limitations upon us.
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i am a muslim and i am convinced with wut i am on
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constant thinker: in my eyes the problem is that if god creates a world where it is impossible to prove or disprove his existence, science would never know
borek: here you could say - if god weren't good, everything is bad anyway no matter what you do. so you may as well live as if he is good.
but i guess it comes down to spirituality which is again not logical
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how would any thing exist without someone who created it?
can u let a car make it self in factory?
can u put two chemicals in two separate test tubes to get a new compound?will this happen ,will the compund create it self?
in fact we didnt create the compound but we created conditions to let it be,right?
so Mr FeLiXe i think god created every electron in the universe and every thing around and not around us proves that it has been created by a stronger power.
"God does not play dice with the universe"
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I am a card carrying member of American Atheists...and atheism is NOT a RELIGION.
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how would any thing exist without someone who created it?
Simply extending your logic - who created god?
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the problem with logic is: if you use logic, you have to believe that your logic is accurate, which is again some kind of faith (at a lower level). i don't think you get out of that
and it all comes down to socrates: we know nothing
then people may believe what they feel what is correct but they should not feel better than other people who have different ideas (or "brighter" ...)
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well Mr Borek , without extending the logic because we cannot extend it here , you wanna apply the creature laws (logic) on something that we donot know its nature ?, logic (that is our laws) can not be applied to god because god is not like us and our laws can not be applied to him simply because u know he is not kind of our nature he is something different from us
thats why we cannot ask beyond this , u can not ask who created god because u don not know wut is god
P lus i wanna say that
1- when you say "yes god created the universe ,but who created god?" thats a corrupt question because you believe that god created the universe then u say who created god making god creator and creature in the same time
2-God doesnot imply to the laws of his creatures
3-we are limited by time and place but god who created time and place is not thats why he doesnot imply to our laws
4-look at a toy that moves with u know battery or some thing , as if u say "as the toy is created by man and moves with a battery then he moves with a battery exactly like it and if i told u that he moves a lone , u say "impossible"
5-more over , god proves "Existence" but existence does not prove god like "light proves day but day does not prove light"
thanksfor let me share
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I agree with Borek on this, as whether or not any superior power exists, he fundamental question of why there is anything is still valid. Of course, the creation story of the Quran does tell of how a preexisting God (or Allah) created the world as it exists now. I suppose it makes sense that God may operate on a higher level than logic or reason, but to jump to that immediately is a bit of a cop-out, in my humble opinion.
Although "Strong Atheists" make the assertion that there is no God, I can't say I agree with that as a conclusion. There may be a God, but evidence of any such being has yet to come to me, thus I retain my disbelief. First there would need to be empirical evidence for the existence of anything, thus my support of science. If a supreme, conscious being were discovered, one would have to prove that it was the God of any given religion (Yahweh, Allah, Brahma, etc.), and then I would only follow said religion if I truly thought it was the right path, taking into relation the argument of whether a good God would send so many to hell or not. The last requirement there, though, is outside the realm of science, for although science is the most useful tool for studying what exists, it denotes nothing of how one "should" act or how things "should" be (a fact that befuddles Social Darwinists).
I am a "Weak Atheist." I don't make the assertion that there are no gods, because I don't know for certain that there are no gods, but I do disbelieve in gods for there is no evidence, and the burden of proof is on the believer. Furthermore, my philosophy is that gods should not be relevant to how one acts. I do not believe that ultimate power like that of a god makes one inherently "good," and I believe that a foul god should not be followed. I used to strictly associate with Buddhism, and still have a high respect for it, as it more-or-less preaches this ideal. Now, I think there are infinite paths to what may be called "Enlightenment," with the Eight Fold Path being only one template. Each individual chooses his or her purpose of life; It is up to them to either be the person who lives healthily and bring happiness to those around them, or be the person who strives off the suffering of others.
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I tend to think I may be an Adamsian
"It is known that there is an infinite number of worlds, but that not every one is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds. So if every planet in the Universe has a population of zero then the entire population of the Universe must also be zero, and any people you may actually meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
Douglas Adams, The Original "Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" Radio Script
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well, i know that you are not serious but even in jokes you should stick to mathematical accuracy ... ;)
let's say we take the natural numbers and take away all odd numbers (which is even an infinite amount of numbers) and we still end up with an infinite amount of numbers. so you don't know if there is possibly an infinite amount of inhabited worlds
sorry, had too many math classes recently ...
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I am Cristian Orthodox
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I believe in no god but science and logic.
Not trying to be facetious, but in life, I try my best to apply logic and a scientific approach to living, to my interactions with others (hey pretty lady, fancy some covalent bonind? lets get those electrons delocalised and become aromatic... ;D)
I don't actually chat up women like that don't worry, but I evaluate possible states, desirability of such states, and probability etc.
Worked for me so far, I cann't put blind faith into something I have zero evidence of the existence of such, as such, god, doesn't work for me, and if the god 'yahweh' of the OT/NT actally existed, and I met him, I would not worship, nor would I worship any other mainstream god if proven to exist.
They to me, all seem inscrutable, incredibly cruel, and two-faced.
I would rather die, than bend my knee to an entity, however powerful, that has ordered the wholesale killing of women, children and entire races, it would be little better than to bend and kiss the feet of bin laden, or adolf hitler, all tyrants, just on a different scale.
Although my gf is a christian, baptist I think, and I would go to church and sit through the service for her, but for the sake of love only, I would not fake worship while I was in there, for anybody, hell, not even god him/her/them/itself.
I see the search for the beginning, what came first, and what was before that, to be absolutely a fundamental part of the character and psychology of the human species, but personally, I see it colored by a scientific outlook, and as such, cannot bring myself to believe in the existence of a deity.
Although, I do not discount that there may actually BE one or more, in fact, I would be absolutely damned fascinated to meet, talk with, and study one (and if there are any dead ones hanging about, I'd love to see what made it tick :D)
Closest thing to a bible I have, is A.Shulgin's PIHKAL, TIHKAL and guide to simple plant isoquinolines.
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I do not believe in god as some sort of being depicted by every religion. Let me state that. I am just playing devils advocate.
I cann't put blind faith into something I have zero evidence of the existence of such
What qualifies as evidence? The words of what others state to have witnessed is not evidence?
Have you ever seen an electron? A proton? There is evidence for it in science, but you are just taking the word of other people. So does it then really qualify as evidence? What about quarks? We see the effects of them, but has anybody ever seen one? What is evidence?
People say science is about truth, but it is not! Science is about knowledge.
If science was about truth, then even doing our simple calculations of pH for dilute concentrations we would not ignore the activity coefficient. Yes in many cases ignoring it has only a very insignificant effect, but if you were after the truth you would not ignore it.
For virtually every thing you do in science, I can show an example of how we know it is wrong; but we continue to use it because it is almost right, and it still works and leads to more knowledge.
Truth is a discussion for religion and philosophy, not science. That is my opinion anyway.
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What qualifies as evidence? The words of what others state to have witnessed is not evidence?
Have you ever seen an electron? A proton? There is evidence for it in science, but you are just taking the word of other people. So does it then really qualify as evidence? What about quarks? We see the effects of them, but has anybody ever seen one? What is evidence?
Repeatability is a key word here. I have not seen electron nor have I performed experiment in which it is visible by myself, but given necesary resources I can repeat experiments in which it is visible (or at least somehow detectable). You can't say the same about any god.
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Repeatability is a key word here. I have not seen electron nor have I performed experiment in which it is visible by myself, but given necesary resources I can repeat experiments in which it is visible (or at least somehow detectable). You can't say the same about any god.
Really?
I am pretty sure I can find more people in this world that will say they have heard from god, and god told them to be a "good person" (or one of the many other things people say god says) then I can find people that even with a manual would be able to make these measurements given all the equipment and resources.
I would not even want to speculate on the fact that it is quite possible I can find more people that would say they have been visited by aliens, and give the same description of a physical being that visited them then I could find people capable of doing the experiments given the resources of detecting an electron. I fear the alien thing would be in higher number. So we have people saying they have been visited by aliens, and give the same physical description and even circumstances. It is a repeatable thing, probably by more people then can see evidence of an electron given all the resources. So then, that is proof aliens visit people on earth and give them anal probes for some strange reason?
Again, I am not saying I believe any of this. I am just playing devils advocate. And I understand my example is a little wacky. I just do not see it as so clear cut; even though myself I would put science in front of god like beings without a single minute of hesitation.
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Electron mass and its charge will be the same regardless of wheteher they were measured by me or someone else. That's repeatability. What people hear from their god depends on their religion. That's not repeatability.
I can see your point, but I doubt you will get far with the search for god just looking at the stories told by people. If you can prove these people did not have some common background on which they could build their stories, that will change the thing. But fact that their stories are religion dependent suggests rather some interesting quirk in our psychology, not existence of god(s).
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Electron mass and its charge will be the same regardless of wheteher they were measured by me or someone else. That's repeatability. What people hear from their god depends on their religion. That's not repeatability.
But you actually will not. We call it experimental error. And we use reasoning, logic and other knowledge and say, well they represent the same thing. heh ;D
I believe in science. But I have not gone back and redone every experiment ever done in the past, but I have accepted the information given to me by those people that have come before me. I trust in there judgment and practices. It is not really that much difference in religion when you break it down to the basic level.
And again, just so people do not get confused by me, I am playing devils advocate. I am not a religious person at all!
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I believe in science. But I have not gone back and redone every experiment ever done in the past, but I have accepted the information given to me by those people that have come before me. I trust in there judgment and practices. It is not really that much difference in religion when you break it down to the basic level.
You have not redone every experiment, but you can repeat almost any of them if you want. When it comes to 10 commandments you have no choice, but to believe an old Jew when he said 'that's what God gave me'. You can't check what really happened there, you can't check if he received 10 commandments, you can't check what they were.
"You can if you want" against "you can't, period". That's a huge difference.
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10, I thought it was 15?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L940yIeVZzE
;D
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10, I thought it was 15?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L940yIeVZzE
;D
You see, nobody knows and you can't check.
Electron charge, on the other hand...
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Nothing. Believe in me only.
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I'm a weird blend of Christian protestantism. I actually used to be atheist but that's another story. But I'm content with my beliefs. They don't conflict with my science. And I fit my families in an odd sort of way.
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"When I do good I feel good. When I do bad I feel bad. That is my religion." - Abraham Lincoln
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I am a member of the Church of God in Christ(C.O.G.I.C.) a Petecostal Holiness Church that welcomes everyone, but is a traditionally Black Church( I'm white). I'm trying to get my Minister's Credentials.
I grew up Baptist, but find most Baptist too laid back, and too Liberal.
People, you should really try to fully grasp Godel's Incompletenesss Theorem.
All Logical systems either A.} Contain Contradictions, and/or B.} Contain Unprovable Assertions' and/or C.} cannot be fully justified without bring in at least one axiom from outside the system--At which point you have a new system to which these three Axioms invariably apply-- or at least one of them.
Do you remember the old Sophorific teaser: Can God create a stone that he can't lift?
Most Philosophers want to pooh-pooh the question--but let's restate it in the most general terms possible:
Can an Omnipotentant being create an unsolvable problem for himself? One which he would be completely impotent to resolve?
This is like Joshu's "Mu". Answer "Yes" or "No" and your "Omnipotent" being loses his Buddah nature.
But wait--have we proven that Omnipotence can't exist? No, we've simply proven that Omnipotence is beyond Human Logic or Comprehension...
Now people misuse the term Atheist and Agnostic.
A true Atheist is not only sure that God does not exist: He is convinced that God is a Logical impossibility in This; or any other concievable Universe...
Now that takes faith.
The Agnostic doesn't trust his own, or anyone else's experience. Hypothetically, no matter how many times God revealed himself to the Agnostic--no matter how blatantly, the good Agnostic will always be uncertain if God is real--or if he's simply hallucinating.
Some Fundamentalists want to argue endlessly whether Evolution is "Good Science" or not. I don't care. There is no existensial reason to believe that "Good Science" is always true...
Any philosopher will tell you that you Can't use Science to prove Science--anymore than you can lift yourself by the bootstraps...
So I don't have to shout myself hoarse, proclaiming that Evolution is a stupid idea--actually, it is concievable, and rather cleaver. It just doesn't happen to be true...
Now I can't "Prove" my thesis either. However, once you realize that God would have to be far different than man--the idea that God created the whole Universe as a showcase for man; that he created mankind for some at least partially obscure aggenda; and that he constructed the human brain; mind; and soul to feel a certain inherent plausibility to certain inherent ideas and tendancies, is no longer anymore mind-boggling than any other idea...
..RVM45 8) ::) 8)
By the way-in a human sense; although some things are inherently too hairy to predict the outcome; the only time that one can know an outcome with certainty, ahead of time; is if that event is somehow both fixed and preordained.
Omnescience, like Omnipotence doesn't have to share human limitations--so God is quite capable of knowing the result of our "Truly Random" and "Totally Freewill" actions; without having to hedge his bets by limiting us to one possible outcome...
But a God like the Musselmen believe in, where God carefully choreographs even the smallest detail before he even starts; raises some serious questions--like why bother? Why not just think about it--and not; and then say that he did?
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I believe in Science and Secularism.
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Hinduism( Orthodox )
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i am a religious muslim i dont like terrorism and i hate the talaban and osama bin ladin will burn in hell forever for his crimes.
so hi my name is nasser. :D :Dhttp://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/charac/essays_MUSLIMS_CHARACTER_ghazali.htm (http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/charac/essays_MUSLIMS_CHARACTER_ghazali.htm)
have a read and you will know what type of person i ami hope you understand it properly.
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My world outlook is Orthodox Judaism but practically I do not observe the most of commandments.
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I was raised Methodist, but I've become too much of a cynic to believe in much of anything anymore.
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nothing~~~so i often feel pessimistic~~~sometime faith gives power
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I am Christian, more specifically Baptist, but the two churches I attend (mine and my girlfriends) are both rather conservative churches to be Baptist. Grew up Methodist, but moved and found a Baptist Church we enjoyed, been there ever since. Everyone will always have questions about their faith they never completely understand, but I fully believe in my faith towards God.
That being said, I do and will respect others opinions on their faiths. I wish more people would learn about Christianity before dismissing it, but I enjoy talking to people who follow other faiths as well. Often if you can have a respectable conversation and not an argumentative one, its really insightful and amazing how common some religions really are.
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Since my dad is an atheist,I was raised as an atheist. But I believe there is something like "Illuminati", don't consider the name, I mean there are a bunch of elite and very rich people directing the world,and they cause is founding the new world order. Not decided after seeing some symbols, it should be like this. Think Lady Gaga,she isn't beautiful,she has not got a good voice, she didn't write any songs(Look at the writers of Pokerface etc.) but she is famous! And she has got a lot of fans. How could it be? At this point, I start thinking a secret association behind all these Disney singers etc.
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I use to be christian. Then learned about science and history and other religions. Putting it all together, you can get a pretty good idea of what it is all about : evolution over large periods of time, evolution of technology, evolution of religions, cultures, languages....and the most important, accumulation of information.
I expect all "intelligent" life forms to go through the same steps as humans have.
I also believe that most people need to follow some religion.
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new member here. still a chemistry noob so i have nothing to add in that sector yet... but i could throw something in here 8)
i'm of the belief that there is no point in belief. i spent 15 years as a hardcore christian, then the past few years as a hardcore atheist. after this point i had a series of life-altering experiences which kind of opened me up to the idea that i'm just a human being living an insignificant life and i have NO right to declare how the universe was started. i love science and accept spirituality equally but i just don't think it's right for anyone to say they "know." the universe is much too large and complex for us to understand fully. i think it's great that people continue their search for understanding though, as i believe that it's not the answer that matters but what we learn in the process. so, i stand on the fence in saying anything is possible. i don't like labels. life is life and i will keep pondering the possibilities til the day i die 8) knowing is declaring an end to further investigation
but hey that's just my take on the matter
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I'm a nihilist. I never believed in anything. In fact, I see no purpose in anything. In the end, we all die. No matter what you do. You die. That's why I enjoy so many mundane things. Eating? I love it. Watching the clouds? Of course. Taking a s#*$? Hell yeah.
That's my way of thinking. You only live once. Make the most of it.
I hated the idea of religion. Religion is the shackles that chain people to the earth. Religion as a set of morals is perfectly fine. But actually believing in their "stories"? Those stories were made up to exemplify the moral messages.
Sorry if I have offended anyone. In fact, who cares if anyone is offended? Being offended is subjective. So no one should take offence to anything.
Once again, sorry for rambling on. I'm really tired.
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I'm a nihilist. I never believed in anything. In fact, I see no purpose in anything. In the end, we all die. No matter what you do. You die. That's why I enjoy so many mundane things. Eating? I love it. Watching the clouds? Of course. Taking a s#*$? Hell yeah.
Why do we die? Can a solution be found to that problem? Should we find a solution to that problem?
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I am Christian. I was raised Baptist, but I am considering switching churches because I doin't agree with many things that go on there.
Same here; I came from Roman Catholic family and recently attending on Christian service. Also I’m planning to change mine not because I don’t like the beliefs; truth is I only found peace on Christians something that I’m longing. ;)
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I'm a class 6 atheist in the Dawkins' spectrum of theistic probability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability).
I believe that the world, the living things and actually the whole universe are formed in a process which requires no divine intervention.
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Atheism is the most foolish belif!
I'm not going logical , you are a proof that God exists.
Have you ever dreamt? Where were you when you dreamt? God is up there and He cares for you
any atheist has a reason ..not Just to beiieve a GOD dosent exist but also to imagine there's no being cöntrolling his life
the bible is true. Heaven exists and so does hell. Well, since its obvious there's no sense in agnostism
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Borek
Suppose we all die and see for ourselves that God, heaven and hell truly exist,..and that a GOD actualy set the rules for our lives on earth..and he'l punish offenders in hell as is written in the bible...what would you do?
You dont believe God exists simply because you cant prove. That is simply risky because if HE exists, you're done for
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Atheism is the most foolish belif!
I am not insulting you just because you believe in God.
That is simply risky because if HE exists, you're done for
I am taking the risk.
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I dont mean to offend when i say atheism is foolish...
I was expressing God's opinion in the bible
'the fool says there is no God'
Its obvious much learning has made you oblivious of certain things....but the truth remains that a good God exists.
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On a milder tone...God may not be visible to the eye... But his acts are real
Scientists when trying to disprove his existence end up proving it!
Have they not discovered that there was a time in history that the 'sun stood still' or better put..the earth stopped rotating as it was recorded in the bible.
Of course you know that hell has been discovered ...described as a region 10 times hotter than estimated! According to the reports they could hear cries of human beings that seemed to be in torture when they lowered their microphone.
Even the new Jerusalem as the bible stated has been proven to exist by scientists described correctly as a city just as the bible stated.
I'd like you to know that proofs abound of God's existence and many people know this...its only unfortunate that only few know how to worship him
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Atheism is the most foolish belif!
I'm not going logical , you are a proof that God exists.
Have you ever dreamt? Where were you when you dreamt? God is up there and He cares for you
any atheist has a reason ..not Just to beiieve a GOD dosent exist but also to imagine there's no being cöntrolling his life
the bible is true. Heaven exists and so does hell. Well, since its obvious there's no sense in agnostism
I think that animals dream as well. From my observations of my own cat, I'd say at certain times, he does dream. It is a function of the mind and the mind isn't understood well.
I get the impression that if something is not understood, all cultures attribute it to magic : for example, according to the jewish religion, God created the rainbow as a symbol of peace.
Example 2 : a baby is a miracle.
Example 3 : you get sick because some deity is punishing you
Example 4 : the sun is made of gold
Example 5 : platinum is just gold that is not yet ripe
Example 6 : the electron is a particle (later, it was found that it behaves as a wave and so do atoms)
(well ok, not all those example have to do with magic. I was just showing that information changes over time as my 2nd point)
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Have they not discovered that there was a time in history that the 'sun stood still' or better put..the earth stopped rotating as it was recorded in the bible.
Of course you know that hell has been discovered ...described as a region 10 times hotter than estimated! According to the reports they could hear cries of human beings that seemed to be in torture when they lowered their microphone.
Do you have any credible source for these claims? If not, they are not worth electrons used to display them on the screen. People can write whatever they like, but just because it is written doesn't mean it is true.
I have seen people flying over New York - do you believe me? If so, why? If not, why not?
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Do you have any credible source for these claims?
It's not worth it...
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Borek
if i must go logical...
So many things prove that a GOD exists
in mathematics, you can't have an equation without a constant; it's the same in nature. Our world has so many variables and there just has to be a constant unchanging person which is God
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For those who are wondering what that was about, I had run into that article about hell being found by accident a few months ago.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/drilltohellfacts.htm
It is a fun read, if you have time to kill.
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It is a fun read, if you have time to kill.
Thanks. A good one.
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Yes, I'd seen that story a number of times. It may have been quoted on Yahoo News, which I see when I leave my email. It quotes lots of such typical stories. And clearly, doesn't feel bad about how this paints them as a news source. But ... we here at the chemical forums, like to hold our postings to a higher standard than Yahoo Wakky News, USA's Enquirer, UK's The Sun or Pravda. Students come here, looking to learn new things, so deliberate disinformation, for philosophical purposes, isn't what we'd like the group to be about.
The Tao: started this thread years ago when this board started, as a brief moment to speak frankly about the role of his religion in his daily life. It has since become a thread where everyone "testifies" -- that is, preaches to the group about what they believe. Which is fine -- these thoughts are in our heads, and they're part of us, and they might as well be out in the open. But if someone's come to this board, with no purpose but to preach in this thread, introduce themselves in the Introductions thread, and announce their age in the Age thread, I'm kinda left wondering why those people came to the Chemical Forums at all.
Since I've gone and posted in this thread after all these years, I guess I should answer the OP's question: I was raised Roman Catholic, when to parochial school before college, and was even an altar boy. Roman Catholic doctrine, rituals and catechism hold a special place in my mind for me, but I don't base all my opinions, actions and conversations on only that. I no longer attend mass, because its boring. Your average sermon is much less inspirational to me than say, the moral of a good episode of Star Trek or other, well written, sci-fi.
I remain a theist. Its easy for me to meet, everyday, someone smarter and more talented than me. I try to channel that experience into what passes for the understanding of an Ultimate Intelligence. I use this as a daily thought problem. The cognitive dissonance this requires is, I believe, something useful to keep me humble and open minded.
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any atheist has a reason ..not Just to beiieve a GOD dosent exist but also to imagine there's no being cöntrolling his life
the bible is true. Heaven exists and so does hell. Well, since its obvious there's no sense in agnostism
According to the Hebrew and Greek sources where the Bible is translated from, there's no such thing as Hell. And also, if I was to believe in a god, which one should I choose from the thousands of them? Which religion is the right one?
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A thought for all that argue religion/no religion.
One spends his time arguing for invisible space ghost. Another spends his time arguing against invisible space ghost.
Two people have now wasted their time. And I lost about a minute of my life writing this. >:(
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I don't really believe in the bible god or whatever religion book there is out there, those are man made and man doesn't know anything beyond what we have seen. And we have never seen god or the heavens or hell, and we have been to space and 100s of meters underground. However I can't really say that something superior to us doesn't exist. For example I strongly believe in the Big Bang Theory and how the universe was created, also I am a huge believer of evolution, you know survival of the fittest and all of that. But if the universe was created from a single particle full of energy, then where did that particle came from, and who put it there. That is the reason I believe that something bigger exists just not how they put it in the bible.
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I'm definitely an agnostic atheist. :P
Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence.
If someone were to come up with proof of the existence of a God (or Gods), then I would become a gnostic theist.
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@wave 57;
what is evidence? Is it what you see or what you strongly suspect?
If it's what you see, then why 'believe' in evolution? If it's what you strongly suspect then you simply chose to believe a God dosen't exist simply because you dont have a 'proof'. This strange because in the end agnostism and gnoism are both belifs. The problem is: you're not 100% sure your agnostic belifs are true. That's the danger. I'm a christian, and I'm 100% sure God exists. Have you ever solved a math equation that has no constant? Its impossible. That's a proof- in a highly variable universe, there must be a constant factor; a creator.
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I was raised Christian.
As I learned more, I began to question more. My questioning lead me to seek empirical evidence. Faith (feeling) isn't reliable (which you yourself can try on a multiple choice test on a subject you have no clue about. No matter how much faith you have in your God, he won't channel you the answer).
Now I'm an atheist. No evidence = no belief. Simple as that.
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@wave 57;
what is evidence? Is it what you see or what you strongly suspect?
If it's what you see, then why 'believe' in evolution? If it's what you strongly suspect then you simply chose to believe a God dosen't exist simply because you dont have a 'proof'. This strange because in the end agnostism and gnoism are both belifs. The problem is: you're not 100% sure your agnostic belifs are true. That's the danger. I'm a christian, and I'm 100% sure God exists. Have you ever solved a math equation that has no constant? Its impossible. That's a proof- in a highly variable universe, there must be a constant factor; a creator.
I'm not going to be getting into any debate if that's what you think.
But evidence is something that we can prove happens, something that is recordable. And why is a God exempt from proof/evidence being needed.
My question for you is why you do not believe in multiple Gods, and specifically why the "Christian" God?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laGB4etAosE
I am anti-theist but I am open to the idea that a god or gods may exist, but I do not believe any religion on Earth has the proof for the existence of a god.
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I'm a christian, and I stand by it. However, anyone of opposite religions, I will not be rude or hateful to you.
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Islam is my religion and i'm proud of being a muslim :) :)
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Islam is my religion and i'm proud of being a muslim :) :)
Why does pride have anything to do with the reality of the universe?
The universe is a certain way whether we like it or not.
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Agnostic atheist, slightly anti-theistic, though I'm more likely to hide than confront other people about it because I'd rather be doing something else.
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I am Christian. I was raised Baptist, but I am considering switching churches because I doin't agree with many things that go on there.
dont tell me you love Animes ??? i'm a big anime fan
well i'm a Muslim by birth and follow it by heart ;D
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If the Devil interests you guys, here's a nice video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5mYFJ4irxM
The video is titled "The History of the Devil". It is quite long but doesn't touch every detail such as why people think hell is below and why people believe there are lakes of sulfur.
The last part about the "Salem witch trials" is neat as well and also nasty. I did some reading about it after watching this video.
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I'm a Catholic and active at church, yet my perspective in life was not to follow my religion's traditions. Traditions on most religions makes life complicated not only yourself but to other religions who don't understand that particular tradition. As long as you believe that there is one God then live simply and avoid discrimination practice on other religions.
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I am Catholic. To me religion and science go hand and hand. I read a book ( i can not remember the name of it) written by a professor from Georgetown I believe. He makes the claim that Christianity and science need each other. That they both are saying the same thing. It was exactly how I felt before reading the book, I just couldn't put it into words like he did.
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some of us in Africa have seen spirits, it's not uncommon here, really. I don't want to blame any atheist here. Perhaps If you've experienced what we experience here in southern nigeria, at least you'll be theist.
I found this link that should suit chemical forums people
http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_scientificcaseagainstevolution/
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It is hard for me not to believe in a higher being.
I was in the presence of many angels in heaven
But when I touched one this angry guy kicked me out of heaven into a cold place. Was this god?
Then I came to my senses and realized I was just drunk in a St. Petersburg strip club and got kicked out onto the street in february by an angry bouncer.
close enough ;) ;D ;D :D :o ;D :D
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Agnostic Theist, it's what I am :)
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None.
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Organic Chemistry, with lots of Bibles.
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I'm a Christian and would be open to discussing it. I believe that many things take faith, even science.