Chemical Forums

Specialty Chemistry Forums => Chemical Education and Careers => Topic started by: bball927je on January 08, 2008, 03:45:43 PM

Title: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 08, 2008, 03:45:43 PM
Which, in your opinion, would be better or more interesting to major in in college.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 08, 2008, 04:09:11 PM
Do you like to derive equations or do you like to apply them to problems?
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: agrobert on January 08, 2008, 04:54:02 PM
I think chemistry allows more freedom and opportunity for research, but if you want a job in industry right out of college chemical engineering is better.

Some previous pertinent discussions available by searching the forum in the upper right

http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=21470.msg81664

http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=18406.msg71581

http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=21533.msg81967#msg81967
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 08, 2008, 05:11:25 PM
You will make more money as a Chem-E.  You can get a job right out of school either way.  The jobs for chemists in my region of the US are abundant.  No lack of work for new grads here.

One of my friend is a BS/Chemistry and MS Environmental Engineering she has topped out in R&D at 185K/year.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 08, 2008, 05:35:17 PM
Here do your own seaerch on the largest jobboard.  www.indeed.com links all the job boards to one place to www.indeed.com

Go there type in you location:  city/state...then type in the job you are looking for...see what is available

This is a great link and you can look at what is availble all over the US...
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Kryolith on January 08, 2008, 05:50:14 PM
Maybe offtopic, but just interesting to me:

As a member of the GDCh (=German Chemical Society) I have access to a survey about the average salary (correct word?) of a PhD (chemistry) at the beginning of the career. Result: 58,180 EUR (=85,751 US-$)

I guess in the U.S. payments are even better. Does anybody know an approximate value?

Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 08, 2008, 05:59:01 PM
Let me please emphasize she has a governemnt job....and every exam she takes gains her an increase...
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 08, 2008, 06:23:29 PM
Thanks, I'm only a sophomore in high school but I've taken a real interest in chemistry. I'm not exactly sure about what type of chemistry I like the most but so far it would have to be Physical Chemistry.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: LQ43 on January 08, 2008, 06:28:38 PM
I am a chemist and I think I would be unhappy as an chem engineer even making 185K. Money can motivate your choice however, if you are doing a job you don't enjoy, life is miserable.

However, if you are not sure of what you are suited for, taking the engineering path is a good first choice because as a engineer you would have the theoretical and practical/industrial opportunities that the programs give you. In industry a B.Chem Eng has a much higher ceiling (if any) when it comes to advancement (well, an MBA along the way does help). It would not be too difficult I think to just switch to a pure chemistry/academic career either if you find that suits you better - you could apply to grad school from that point. However to go from a B.Sc. chemist to an engineering career would require more undergrad courses in the engineering program to get your second degree. 
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 08, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
Thanks again, I have a feeling I would be more suited towards a Chemistry major with all the input you have given me. But if you have any descriptions about what a life as a chemist would be like that would be like that would be helpful also.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 08, 2008, 07:39:46 PM
I am a chemist and I have an enginnering background as well. But there is one difference...LOL as my engineering buds say....you are a scientist...not an engineer...and it is a differnt way of approaching problem solving....I have to derive everything and understand where it comes from...I am not satified with that it is...and I can apply it...

Engineers and scientists complement each other they work well together...

Me and most of my friends are in the 80K salary range...and that inculdes incentives and profit sharing...and employee stock purchasing options...

Now that friend of mine who has that fat salary...she works for it...and her kid is an engineer and he is being offered fat salaries in Austin and Florida...and that is DOE and DOD...so those salaries are high....he will be making more than I do...
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 09, 2008, 08:56:47 AM
So what exactly do you derive equations for?
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 09, 2008, 11:34:39 AM
OK that is huge....

You want to know where they come from.  You want to know what the units are.  Units are very very very important.  When I was in Quantum Physics...I can remeber this one eqn...and it was not just me...worked on it for 2 weeks ..I mean could not let it go...haD 2 PROFESSORS HELPING..had an answer...but the units were wrong...could not get the last step...and it was some unit transformation occurred to get the correct answer by substituting in ONLY THE UNIT CONVERSION...

Should have seen the look on our other physic's professor's face when that was finally done...UNBELIEVABLE...

Deriving an equation gives you great insite into how so many things can be linked together...takes TENACITY at times...
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 09, 2008, 11:55:00 AM
Go to this link on the forum:  http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=19432.0

This is a question regarding XRD and how you find n.

Well one does not find n.  It is not calculated.  n is an integer value representing the order of reflectance in the analyzing crystal.

So I derived Bragg's Equation and showed where n comes from...if you know where it comes from it makes more sense.



Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 09, 2008, 03:47:55 PM
Wow... I can't imagine working on the same equation for 2 weeks straight. I can't wait till I get up to that level of chemistry.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 09, 2008, 05:13:13 PM
It was a fluke...some very esoteric unit substitution....set the entire answer to right!!!!

If you ever take E&M....LOL  in my class 3 exams..all take home 5 questions each...3 weeks to do the exam....

You will do just fine...take it a step at a time...
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 10, 2008, 10:56:29 PM
A 2.000g sample of CoCl2*xH2O is dried in an oven. When the anhydrous salt is removed from the over, its mass is 1.565g. What is the value of x?

That is the only problem I got wrong on a chemistry competition test.. I guess it is because I was absent the day we learned it. I know this is the wrong topic but I figured since I already started this topic I might as well post this in here.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 10, 2008, 11:06:12 PM
you are trying to determine the formula of your hydrate by mass difference....

OK so you have 2.000 g of this material with unknown formula (at the moment) because it has not yet been dried..

You are drying it to determine the formual by weight difference,

So you have 2,000 g and your final mass after drying is 1.565 g....the difference in the two values is the amount of water lost to drying in grams...

2.000 g - 1.565 g = 0.435 g

0.435 g is the mass of the water lost to drying

Can you figure out what to do next??
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 10, 2008, 11:17:32 PM
You are determining the empirical formula for the hydrated salt.  You do this using theinitial mass (weight) and the final mass (weight) after drying...
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 10, 2008, 11:42:41 PM
1. Determine the mass of water driven from the hydrate during the heating process. = 0.4350 g

2. Determine the mass of anhydrous salt left in the crucible after the heating process. = 1.565 g

3. Determine the percentage of water in the hydrate. Use parts/total parts x 100
(0.4350 g/2.000 g )x 100 = 21.75% ( 4 significant digits allowed)


4. Determine percentage of anhydrous salt left behind.   Use parts/total parts x 100
(1.565 g / 2.000 g) x 100 = 78.25% ( 4 significant digits allowed)

5. Determine mols of anydrous salt present in hydrate.  Mass of the anhydrous salt is mass of CoCl2 =  129.83 g/mol Then (1.565 g  / 129.83 g/mol) = 0.01205

6. Determine mols of water present in hydrate.  Mass of water is mass H2) = 18.01 g/mol
(0.4350 g / 18.01 g/mol) = 0.02415

7. Determine the mole ratio  of water to salt:  Use ratios to determine this with any luck get a whole number ratio...

(0.01205/0.01205 )= 1   and then (0.02415/0.01205) = 2.00

The mol ratio of water to salt 2.00  to 1 (2 to 1)

Formula :  CoCl2 x 2H2O

Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Mitch on January 11, 2008, 12:49:27 AM
As a scientist, problems due have a way of prickling at you. I've been thinking of a way to make cylooctatriene from cyclooctadiene for the past week now and it is really hard to focus with this auxiliary research problem in the back of my mind. I've scheduled tomorrow to hammer it out.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 11, 2008, 06:17:08 AM
Ughhhhhh.... that problem was so easy... i really should have gotten it and tied for first in my competition instead of second..
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 11, 2008, 08:06:01 AM
Well..

Look, my friend AVM used to participate in Math Competitions...and if you were sick the day that problem was presented...OK so you did not learn the method for solving it quickly...they always give you a trick for solving quickly...so you missed one problem...YOU PLACED RIGHT!!!!

And I am sure there were so many who did not....

And that is alot more than someone who did not...my guess is you probably would have done it more quickly than I did above if you had made the review that day....

Hang in there...beieve me there will be another competition and another chance at First Place...

Congratulations on Second Place!!!!
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 11, 2008, 08:42:59 AM
Thanks for the congratulations and the explanation. At least now I will know how to do it for the next competition if it comes up.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 11, 2008, 08:51:07 AM
And see how it is....did you read Mitch's comment...it BOTHERS YOU when something is not solved...it naggs at your brain cells....you cannot rest until it is finished.....do you see the point???

That would be common to both scientists and engineers...it bugs you when something is not resolved/solved....

Do NOT minimize your accomplishments/achievements...instead see second place as a launching zone to gt to first...YOU DID GOOD!!!!!
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: IITian on January 11, 2008, 11:05:20 AM
I did a BS in Chemistry and then moved on to do Post-BS degree in Chemical Technology. I think doing both gives an extra edge! You can understand the scientific basis of the processes as well as the Engineering aspects of it  :)
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 11, 2008, 12:06:10 PM
How long did it take you to finish accomplishing all that? And was it very challenging to do?
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 11, 2008, 12:08:52 PM
IITian has made an excellent point about being well-rounded and diverse.

I can tell you that diversity is a prime point companies seek in a resume.  I have to say my friend DB who has the BS in Chemistry and MS in Envirnmental Engineering...WOW she sure rakes in the bucks..and her job is interesting...she travels...she presents papers, she works on integrated projects with scientists and engineers...BEST OF BOTH WORLDS...



Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 11, 2008, 12:12:31 PM
Lol you seem to have a lot of interesting friends with great jobs in chemistry..
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 11, 2008, 12:17:53 PM
I sure do....they all do different thingsa...aey have tried to remain diverse.

AVM :is a Field Technical Specialist-IC
DB:  is in R&D with Chicago Metropolitan Water District
RLW:  Well Fermi, Argonne, University of Wisconsin
AC Jr:  Dual Degreed Nuclear Engineer/Computer Engineer
AM:  R&D Pfizer
PMH:  Manager QA/QC MGP

Now I am pushing for XRF Applications...with any luck....
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 11, 2008, 03:49:54 PM
Well i wish you all the luck to get XRF Applications.....especially since you have helped me so much with all my questions
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: Alpha-Omega on January 11, 2008, 05:50:25 PM
Well thank you...because I just got the SHIMADZU INTERVIEW....Regional Midwest Manager just called me and scheduled it for next Wednesday...WOO HOO...LUCKY ME...

Now to make it mine..
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 12, 2008, 03:44:47 PM
Congrats, hope you get it.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: bball927je on January 15, 2008, 11:56:39 AM
It would be helpful if anyone has any more insight on what a chemical engineer does during the start of his job and what goes on later in his career.
Title: Re: Chemical Engineering or Chemistry
Post by: danman on December 28, 2011, 03:21:21 PM
i think chemical engineering. i feel like you would have better opportunities with that major.