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Specialty Chemistry Forums => Citizen Chemist => Topic started by: chemicaldream on April 22, 2004, 12:56:46 PM

Title: Iodine
Post by: chemicaldream on April 22, 2004, 12:56:46 PM
Hey guys,
I am after a rection that will precipitate or otherwise give Iodine (that is, elemental Iodine ie not in compound form).
(I have heard that a displacement reaction between potassium iodide and copper sulfate will do the trick)

Cheers!
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Mitch on April 22, 2004, 01:07:16 PM
Sublimation works out best.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Scratch- on April 22, 2004, 01:20:35 PM
I think he’s talking about a chemical change. Isn’t sublimation a physical change?
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: chemicaldream on April 22, 2004, 01:28:36 PM
What sublimation reaction would you recommend?
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Mitch on April 22, 2004, 02:14:12 PM
I've just read that sublimation works out great for isolating Iodine. When I've used iodine in the lab it always seems to sublime to the top of my reaction vessels.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Scratch- on April 22, 2004, 03:38:12 PM
You might be able to purify and concentrate it from medicinal iodine.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: hmx9123 on April 22, 2004, 07:16:50 PM
If you have molecular iodine already, you can separate it from your other materials by sublimation given that none of your other stuff isn't volatile.  Now, given the uses of iodine, I can't imagine what you could be using it for that would be good.  Maybe if you tell us your uses, we might be more forthcoming.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Scratch- on April 22, 2004, 08:09:57 PM
What do you mean by "Given the uses of iodine", the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is for sanitization.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: chemicaldream on April 23, 2004, 05:02:48 AM
The use is actually for a little bit of fun  :)
It's called Ammonium Triiodide crystals
You touch them and they go bang - not a powerful explosive, quite tame actually. But can be fun.
(We actually made them at school, years ago, in year 12 chem - under the techers' supervision. Believe me, they really are harmless. If I wanted a bigger bang, it can be done with household chemicals as you all know. But where's the fun in that?)
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: jdurg on April 23, 2004, 08:17:04 AM
Heh.  You are sorely mistaken my friend.  Nitrogen Triiodide crystals (also known as Ammonium triiodide) are a super sensitive HIGH EXPLOSIVE.  That means that that when it explodes, it explodes with great force.  Many people think it's harmless, but you can seriously hurt yourself and others.  Also, Iodine vapor isn't something you want to be inhaling and getting on your skin.  It leaves some pretty nasty burns.  When I was in college, my organic professor showed me the window of a dorm where some kid tried to make NI3.  He made what he claimed was a small, harmless amount but wound up blowing the window out of the dorm and shattering his left arm.  Nitrogen Triiodide is NOT just some harmless fun.  It's a high explosive that does not get the respect it deserves.  Make one wrong mistake and you'll have just as much trouble and danger as if you were working with nitroglycerine.  I'm not saying "nobody should ever make it."  That would be quite hypocritical.  I'm just stating that you need to realize that it's not a minor explosive and it's not a minimal danger.  I'm not quite sure if you've grasped that yet.   ;D
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Scratch- on April 23, 2004, 09:16:50 AM
Hmmm.... Sounds like a neat thing to do with certain precautions, but I think I’ll wait till I have better equipment to handle it with.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Corvettaholic on April 23, 2004, 11:48:44 AM
Ammonium Triiodide sounds really cool and all, but I don't have enough experience and know-how to safely go about it yet, so I won't. I'm just gonna stick with synthesizing harmless or "neat" things until I feel comfortable with chemistry. The guys and I had a bit of a discussion over this triiodide stuff last night, and agreed it was best not to try out this one for now  ;D
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: chemicaldream on April 23, 2004, 12:06:39 PM
Oh, my god. I don't know if anyone saw the part I wrote when I said
I DID THIS AT SCHOOL. With a whole heap of other students. The teachers told us how to do it!!!!! It was part of an extra little course for chem students, and it was done at the end of the course for fun. The teachers even did it.
{Edited} and get a stick and touch the crystals.
KEEEEEERRRRRRBOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The explosion was so incredible, that when I touched a crystal with my finger, it felt like someone had flicked it (my finger).

Are you guys afraid of party poppers? (those things that have a string that you pull, and then streamers come out) Do you run when someone pops a balloon?

I understand that explosives are dangerous, and over the 15 years or so I have been making them, my knowledge, understanding and RESPECT for them has meant that I have not even had a "close call".

If I want a big bang, I'll make some nitro (like I first did many years ago). But for now, I'll be happy with some iodine and ammonia. ok?  :)

So, please, if someone actually knows how to isolate it, can you please tell me? It would be greatly appreciated. THANKYOU!!!

Cheers
 

Edit: Information on the preparation of explosives is simply not within the scope of this website. Please refraim from sharing this type of knowlege here. Mitch
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: chemicaldream on April 23, 2004, 12:15:40 PM
Ah, here we go. Got it. Very simple, very easy.
 :o Oh, no, I am going to use it!!! :)

BTW, Mitch, what reaction are you doing that involves iodine?
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Scratch- on April 23, 2004, 12:18:04 PM
Can you use the medicinal iodine used to steralize things?
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: chemicaldream on April 23, 2004, 12:25:03 PM
Not sure about that one. Is that the same as tincture of iodine? You can sublime iodine out of that stuff, but there are better ways....

But I better not tell you, because you may use it to do BAD THINGS!  ;D

But, you know, if you tell me what you're going to do with it, I might tell you.

hehehe

Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Scratch- on April 23, 2004, 12:27:21 PM
I was thinking of a device I could make that would photograph small explosions.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: chemicaldream on April 23, 2004, 12:29:37 PM
How do you go about doing that? I wouldn't mind something that could photograph (god forbid!) ammonium triiodide explosions...
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Scratch- on April 23, 2004, 12:34:05 PM
Well, I could make a cement block that has a container above it, held closed by an electromagnet. Then I would set up my dad's digital camera to take the picture. I would put the explosive material in the container and I trigger the camera a few milliseconds after a cut the power to the electromagnet. The material would fall onto the cement block and explode.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: chemicaldream on April 23, 2004, 12:38:03 PM
so where does the iodine come into the equation? (sic)
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Scratch- on April 23, 2004, 12:40:02 PM
I was thinking of using your ammonium triiodide for the explosive material.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: chemicaldream on April 23, 2004, 12:46:00 PM
Ah, but that is dangerous, isn't it???  ;D

I guess you may be able to use med. stuff.... you can use the tincture of iodine that's easy to obtain, and sublime the iodine from it - maybe the med stuff is similar. (I really wouldn't actually know)



Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Corvettaholic on April 23, 2004, 12:46:51 PM
chemicaldream: I don't think the lack-of-info policy is directed at you because you don't know what you're doing, but what if some idiot pops on here and decides to produce the stuff in dangerous quantities? I mean, it sounds like you know what you're doing and I don't doubt you (the stuff sounds fun), but stuff posted here anyone can get to. Maybe if you sent a PM to people who know about it they'd tell you? I have no idea how it works though, and I don't have your explosives experience so I don't care to know. Cause I know what I would do with it  ;D
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Scratch- on April 23, 2004, 12:48:10 PM
Well, I'm not going to be right next to it, that’s why I have an electromagnet controlling the container. I'm going to do it in the middle of my driveway.
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: Mitch on April 23, 2004, 01:47:07 PM
Information on the preparation of explosives is simply not within the scope of this website. Please refraim from sharing this type of knowlege here. Mitch
Title: Re:Iodine
Post by: hmx9123 on April 23, 2004, 07:50:01 PM
While ammonium triiodide [aka nitrogen triiodide] is not the bane of one's existance and can probably be made by a knowledgeable person with moderate lab experience and only standard safety equipment, it is still a dangerous substance.  Given my experience (yes, I have seen and worked with this stuff), I wouldn't go quite as far as jdurg, because I don't feel that it has quite the danger that NG does, but I would also not dance and laugh around the safety issues.

Interestingly, I also did this in HS, under the close supervision of my teacher, although I would not speak of this material as cavalierly as chemicaldream.  This substance is a brownish paste and is so unstable that the air movement from the fume hood set it off from time to time.  It explodes with a sharp cracking sound and releases a large cloud of iodine gas.  This is not something to be done at home.  If you make it in a fume hood with experienced personnel, as it seems chemicaldream did, then you're probably OK.  If you're an idiot and make more than a couple hundred milligrams, you're going to have some trouble; this material is a high explosive and will tend to break things around it if in sufficient quantity.  Especially if it's resting on a glass funnel to dry or something like that, you're in for some glass shrapnel.

Although it seems that chemicaldream may have done this safely, I would not say that it was safe for him/her to have touched the crystals with his/her hand.  If his teachers allowed him to do this, it was probably poor judgement.

Chemicaldream, your attitude is not appreciated; a belligerent, almost careless attitude toward other posters is rude.  Taunting others by asking if they are afraid of a balloon popping is unacceptable.  Please treat others with more respect, and respect the wishes of the admins when it comes to posting preparations of explosives and other dangerous materials.  Not adhering to this will get your account banned.  If you wish to pursue such inquiries, try directing your requests to alt.engr.explosives, a newsgroup devoted to such matters.  You can find it on the google groups.

One last note: Scratch, this is not a good explosive to work with for your picture taking.  It is so unstable that it would most likely explode while setting it up, thus not allowing you to get a picture anyway.