Chemical Forums
Specialty Chemistry Forums => Biochemistry and Chemical Biology Forum => Topic started by: x44 on August 28, 2005, 01:42:01 AM
-
hello..
i would like to ask some questions about mutation, is it possible to make your onwn animal mutation? like to make little different to your mice, chickens, etc.
thank you.
-
Fruit flys might be the easiest organism to search for mutations and breed for them.
-
in a classroom setting, bacteria are exposed to UV radiation to develop mutations
-
hello.. thank you for answering my post.. I would like to know if I could practice my chickens and mice here to mutate, and what is the tested examples to mutate that kind of animals if was already done, and if not what kind of experiment can you suggest to minimize the harmful effect to animals while i experimenting them. thank you.
-
X44
Answer these questions.
What is the gestation period for mice?
How long does it take a mouse to become an adult?
How long does it take to hatch a chick?
How long does it take a chicken to become an adult?
Regards,
Bill
-
Just be sure that no animal activist know what you are doing. Mutating animals is something they may not like.
But to the point, using mice and chickens might take a while to notice effects, since their gestation period is lengthy when compared to fruit flies.
But mice do have lots offspring, so it may be wiser to choose the mice, so you have more chances of mutation taking place.
What exactly are you trying to get to, or what mutations are hypothesizing will take place....or do you just want to find out for fun.
-
Maybe you could get more out of chickens. A hen with a rooster around could produce eggs continuously. That is if you rob the eggs before she has set. Also, the embryo in the eggs could be radiated far easier that the womb of a mouse. Still the cycle of life has to be taken into account if you are to see any effects over generations.
I am still waiting for my answers from X44
-
As i know the hens can produce eggs in more than 6 months old, then the eggs hatch for 22 days..
about the mice i think it will begin to have child in more than 2 mothns.
actually i have no idea what do to, how to begin, what the materials needed, and we have no chemical store here, instead for a drugstore and a hardware.
but still i want to learn and practice.
can you teach me what will i do?
thank you..
-
Greetings x44,
I feel honor bound to answer you as best I can.
Although, I have had some experience in farming mice and chickens, it was some time ago. My knowledge of inducing mutations is only from what I read and is extremely limited.
The point that some of the other people who have posted are that the study of mutation is often done in living things that have very short reproductive life cycles. Fruit flies and bacteria cycles are days or hours. On these, mutations can be induced with simple processes like exposure to UV light or some chemical under controlled conditions.
Studying induced mutations in mice and chickens would be somewhat more difficult, time consuming and arduous. Instead of days and months it would take years to get results. Also, inducing mutations using chemicals or possibly X-rays in mice and chickens would be harder to control. Additionally, the offspring may be not able to reproduce by virtue of the effects of the mutations. If I recollect correctly, mice will eat their stillborn young.
Never the less let us do a few scenarios. Please note that I have not done anything of this nature and am only guessing.
You inject a female mouse with a mutagenic compound and she survives (which may be rare). Then we mate her with a male and offspring result. Some of these offspring in rare cases has the trait you want to propagate. You separate out these offspring and try to mate them (which may not happen). By the way the trait you are looking for may not happen in the first generation and may be recessive.
You take fertilized eggs and subject them to doses of X-rays. Assuming they hatch from incubation (which may be rare) and they have a trait that you want to propagate, you can continue with the process of trying to select for this trait.
Well, good luck and let us know how you make out in a few years.
Regards,
Bill
-
Dear Bill
i am very happy receiving your reply, maybe i can start experimenting now. but about the mutagenic compound, i have no idea where i could get that. can i buy it in a drugstore?
i have another questions and i hope you can share me your ideas about this. can i use the mutagenic coumpound in the chickens or to any animals? like, spiders, cockroach, lizards... i also ask if there is another chemical you know that i can use in mutation?
actually my objectives are trying see if i can change the physical appearance of the chickens if it is possible like thier feet, their feathers, eyes, etc..
thank you
-
From a dictionary
Mutagen - An agent, such as a chemical, ultraviolet light, or a radioactive element, that can induce or increase the frequency of mutation in an organism.
I would think a drug store would not sell mutagens on purpose.
Sorry, my knowledge of mutagens is only that they exist and some of the effects. I do not know of any by name, but maybe you can Google some.
Selecting things like spiders, cockroach, and lizards may cause you less problems with animal activist. Hardly anyone likes a cockroach.
By the way, it appears that Scientific American magazine has an article about mutation in the October 2005 issue. Maybe your library has a copy.
A side note -
At one point I was considering doing some mutation studies using plant seeds that had been X-rayed vs. that were untreated. Plants are easier to keep and breed. But I knew that they took a long time to propagate.
Regards,
Bill
-
Good day,
i'm just starting my experiment in some insects right now. while im waiting for the result, i just want to know if i could try it also to plants like euphorbia milii? coz people here are go over crazy to collect that kinds of plants, maybe you could share any idea about or how to change it to something unique kinds of euphorbia.
thank you
x44
-
Just wondering if this counts as 'playing God'
I have little objection to it...I'm just wondering.
-
x44
do you mean
Euphorbia mellifera
-
no, it was "Crown of Thorns (Euphorbia milii var. splendens)"
-
If I recollect correctly one of the first studies in history of genetics was done on the pea plant. I think it took years to complete.
-
You wont be able to design mutations, just mutate a whole load of things and breed for whatever you like that comes up. But remember kids mutations arent all laser eyes and schnickity schnickity most lead to cancers and other painfull deaths. Also in most countries experimentation on vertebrates without proper licensing (in the UK you need at least 3 different licenses, training etc.) is illegal, esp when your doing weird genetic stuff, so you might want to stick with insects and plants.
-
My classmate was working on a project about fruit fly mutations. She used thwarts (not real insecticides how far I know. It is possible to by this kind of things in an average shop). The project longed for approximately month and there were some results. She mentioned in the presentation that some generations later flies had changes in their wing lengths and eye color etc. (it was seen using lens).
Good luck!
-
I have no problem with propper scientists doing valuable experiments on animals for the good of mankind - but x44 seems to have no idea what he is doing. To just 'play' with mutating animals seems cruel to me if you have no idea of what you are doing. Stick with the insects if you must - dont just inject crap into mice and hens for the fun of it x44 - it's sick.