Chemical Forums
Chemistry Forums for Students => Undergraduate General Chemistry Forum => Topic started by: Mattatya on October 06, 2005, 05:41:02 AM
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I am throwing a party for a friends birthday next month and the theme of the party is blue. I am rolling around some ideas in my head and came up with wanted to change the color of fire to blue. I have seen it done with Poi stick fire dancers but don't know if I can use it for this application.
1. I would like to have a fire going in our fire place with a press log or fire wood soaked in a chemical then dried and lit up before guest arrive that flames a blue color.
2. I am going to be using about 15 tiki torches and was wondering if I could put something in the citra oil that would cause the flame to be blue.
Any safe ideas on this one?
Let me know.
Matt S.
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I doubt there will be any safe ways to do that. Or at least I can't think of anything like that. :(
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methane burns with a blue flame, maybe you could use gas burners for the party.
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that would require complete combustion. make sure u have plenty of air too.
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Methane may give a blue flame, but only at the bottom.. the upper part of the flame will be yellow..
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Methane may give a blue flame, but only at the bottom.. the upper part of the flame will be yellow..
I don't know about that, most of the gas flames I have seen are very blue!
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(https://www.chemicalforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mece.ualberta.ca%2Fgroups%2Fcombustion%2Fflare%2Fmeth1.jpg&hash=eb261478798513ab5fe598202d329d7c1a1063a5)
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Do any of the alkaline metals (2nd column of elements) burn with a blue flame?
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Cesium salts impart a distinctly sky-blue color to flames. The problem is that cesium salts are not readily available, nor are they cheap. Also, sodium and calcium both produce yellow/orange colored flames and are major contaminants in everything. Even worse is that just a tiny bit of sodium or calcium ions in a flame will overpower virtually every other element out there.
You could get some potassium chloride and add that to all of your fires. Potassium salts burn with a lovely lilac color which is pretty neat looking.
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I still think methane is the way to go, cheap, safe and will keep you warm.
Looks blue to me garneck ;)
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Yes definetly blue ;)
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Mike, well then it must depend on the type of the burner.. because the top of a methane flame should be yellow.
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Mike, well then it must depend on the type of the burner.. because the top of a methane flame should be yellow.
Why is this so? I have not heard this before. Your photo sure does have a yellow top to the flame though. What is your photo of exactly, I can't really determine the scale.
Surely you must agree that this is the best suggestion though, for a party that needs some blue coloured flames!!!
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Bottom (blue ) part of the flame is where the hydrogen is burnt. Once the methane is stripped of hydrogen what is left goes up as soot and burns too - but most of the oxygen was already used, so this part of the flame has much lower temperature and the color of the flame reflects this fact.
If the methane is mixed with oxygen it can burn much better, as carbon is burnt in lower parts of the flame, together with hydrogen. That's how Bunsen burner works.
The problem is, the blue part of the flame is relatively dark - not as bright as the yellow flame. Thus blue flame will be barely visible, while any yellow part will catch attention.
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Yes this makes sense.
What you need are outdoor gas heaters, we have them here and they defiently have a blue flame, as you say though Borek not as bright as a yellow flame, but blue no the less.
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What about some of these sites?
http://www.rutland.com/flame/flame.htm
http://www.kyantec.com/Tips/flame_colorers_for_firewood.htm
http://www.recipegoldmine.com/house/house64.html
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howtos/a/aa052703a.htm
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What about some of these sites?
They quote copper, AFAIR it gives very faint green/blue flame color. Potassium will be not really blue, but mixed with red (violet, purple, whichever way you want to name the color ;) ). And - as it is mentioned somewhere on these pages - there is usually enough sodium in the wood to mask any attempt to change the color of the fire. It will be probably especially visible in case of blue, which is very faint.
But then, trying with copper chloride won't hurt - although it will be not really blue flame, bluish at best. Better bluish then nothing.
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You could try using an ester, I have pepared some alkyl borate esters which dissolved in alcohol, add a bright green color to the flame.
Cobalt (II) compounds impart a bright blue color to a flame, you could try synthesising some sort of cobaltic ester, or a cobalt (II) alcoholate complex, cobalt alkoxides perhaps.
Never done the exact experiment myself, but I think it could work, say, prepare cobalt isopropoxide, and dissolve a small quantity in MeOH.
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If the party is going to take place mainly at night then the blue flame would be more visible.
The cobaltic ester idea sounds cool and fun to make given it's possible. Isn't colbalt expensive also?
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You could try one of those "fake" fires made from a coloured piece of silk, a light and a fan. They often look quites real.
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That is such an unbelievably good idea. Such a simple solution. It's simple enough for someone to at their home without any knowledge of chemistry and without having to worry about blowing themselves up. I don't know why anyone else didn't think of that sooner.
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oooh silk fire.. won't keep you warm though I guess.
and yes I realise this isn't blue!
I really wan't to know how this party turns out.
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What you want for a blue fire is copper(I) chloride, also sold as campfire blue. Soak a pinecone or some wood chips in a saturated solution for several weeks. Then dry them out and when you're ready, toss them in the fire. Solid colorants work, too, but getting them into the hot part of the flame is a problem. As for the tiki torches, I don't know what to tell you. The inorganic salts won't be very soluble. If you were able to incorporate more chloride (such as through parlon or PVC) and add some hexamine, you could get a really excellent blue, but that's starting to get into a slightly more toxic and more pyrotechnic application.