Post by: Sonoris on November 22, 2013, 01:02:42 AM
The textbook has nothing on alkynes + salts, just halides and stuff, so...?
(https://www.chemicalforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2F5pFXw.png&hash=d417d9b3abb1dd4a7292f749272b36f9d8406bee)
It also says nothing about alkynes + these two, unless you also have some halogen stuff laying around to react with first...
(https://www.chemicalforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2F5pGb2.png&hash=dd513feabd60ba99f0c13a3d990ea0b90c088678)
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Edit2: What am I doing wrong here? It's neither of these apparently...?
(https://www.chemicalforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2F5pKKr.png&hash=b240f2193a10af06da569550cb4bec97466771fa)
(https://www.chemicalforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2F5pKNW.png&hash=236d2835e5fa506efd0ae4486405f2dfc0b1bfbf)
Post by: discodermolide on November 22, 2013, 01:25:44 AM
Post by: Sonoris on November 22, 2013, 01:30:05 AM
So what is your question(s)? And have you any thoughts on the answers to your question(s)?
I have absolutely no idea how to go about these. The entire rest of the chapter questions I can do, but I can't find anything resembling these in the book. What is the mechanism going on here, and what would be the correct answer?
Post by: discodermolide on November 22, 2013, 01:34:03 AM
Post by: Sonoris on November 22, 2013, 01:51:08 AM
Start with question A. It says acid/base reaction, so identify an acid and a base in that scheme.Acetylene is acidic, and NaOH is a base. Alright, so... an H can get pulled off the acetylene and there's gonna be ions and crap around and... ok, I got the right answer for it now. (quote from my textbook: "Because water is a stronger acid than acetylene, the hydroxide ion is not a strong enough base to convert a terminal alkyne to an alkyne anion" so uh, yeah...)
#2 still confuses me, but for #3 - is it just throwing a fit because I put NaNH2 and not Na+ and NH2- in the second box?
Post by: Dan on November 22, 2013, 02:54:11 AM
Acetylene is acidic, and NaOH is a base. Alright, so... an H can get pulled off the acetylene and there's gonna be ions and crap around and... ok, I got the right answer for it now. (quote from my textbook: "Because water is a stronger acid than acetylene, the hydroxide ion is not a strong enough base to convert a terminal alkyne to an alkyne anion" so uh, yeah...)
There is no NaOH in the question.
Post by: Archer on November 22, 2013, 02:57:52 AM
but for #3 - is it just throwing a fit because I put NaNH2 and not Na+ and NH2- in the second box?
Is that NH2- or NH2-?
Post by: Sonoris on November 22, 2013, 03:04:38 AM
The now-solved, strikethrough question had NaOHAcetylene is acidic, and NaOH is a base. Alright, so... an H can get pulled off the acetylene and there's gonna be ions and crap around and... ok, I got the right answer for it now. (quote from my textbook: "Because water is a stronger acid than acetylene, the hydroxide ion is not a strong enough base to convert a terminal alkyne to an alkyne anion" so uh, yeah...)
There is no NaOH in the question.
Post by: Sonoris on November 22, 2013, 03:05:25 AM
NH2-
but for #3 - is it just throwing a fit because I put NaNH2 and not Na+ and NH2- in the second box?
Is that NH2- or NH2-?
Post by: discodermolide on November 22, 2013, 03:22:10 AM
did you delete the previous one? If so please don't.
Post by: Sonoris on November 22, 2013, 03:39:32 AM
same thing which is the acid and which the base?No, I turned the statement into a link to the picture and put solved next to it - still there, just not obnoxiously huge.
did you delete the previous one? If so please don't.
Acetylene is still the acid, and the... lithium thing is the base I guess. If it's like the last one, ...oh, REALLY. That double bond in my answer should be a triple. Would that make it correct?
For the next one, with the alcohol + NaNH2 + NH3 - it won't accept any type of answer I think it might be (see Edit2, same issue)
Post by: discodermolide on November 22, 2013, 03:42:10 AM
Same for the alcohol, what are the products?
Post by: discodermolide on November 22, 2013, 04:01:54 AM
Post by: Sonoris on November 22, 2013, 04:15:31 AM
OK, the ethyl lithium is the base the acetylene the acid, so what could the products be?For the lithium one - I want to say it'd be this (http://puu.sh/5pLn7.png), but in drawing it out I get this, but I guess the Li+ would go hang out with the C- (http://puu.sh/5pLD9.png)
Same for the alcohol, what are the products?
For the -OH one, the OH compound is the base and the other is the acid. I still stand by the organic part of my answer, but... I guess there would just be Na+ around instead of NaNH2
edit: this answer for my -OH problem doesn't help for the edit to the main post I made, since neither of those are right and it just wanted the organics
Post by: discodermolide on November 22, 2013, 04:20:02 AM
![[C-]#C[H].[Li+]](https://www.chemicalforums.com/SMILES/3373c64be6877eaaf234.png)
and ethane.
Now do the same for the alcohol, replace the O-H by O-Na+ and the NH2- by NH3.
Post by: Sonoris on November 22, 2013, 04:32:34 AM
The acetylene one is now ok, you getSo just this? (https://www.dropbox.com/s/latbatv745e1xfh/IMG_20131122_042708_650-1.jpg) Why doesn't this other example (http://puu.sh/5pKKr.png) do that? Should I have put the Na on the C-?
and ethane.
Now do the same for the alcohol, replace the O-H by O-Na+ and the NH2- by NH3.
PS - thank you so much, btw @_@ hah
Post by: discodermolide on November 22, 2013, 04:38:20 AM
It's as simple as that!