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Specialty Chemistry Forums => Citizen Chemist => Topic started by: P-man on April 16, 2006, 08:09:55 PM

Title: Experiment
Post by: P-man on April 16, 2006, 08:09:55 PM: I did this experiment today where I added some sulphuric acid to some table salt.

NaCl + H₂SO₄ --> NaSO₄ + H₂Cl

What is this?
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: billnotgatez on April 16, 2006, 09:27:36 PM: I would change it to HCl and redo the formula
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: Mitch on April 16, 2006, 10:03:46 PM: You did not make HCl.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: billnotgatez on April 16, 2006, 10:53:27 PM: mitch

I assume you are not implying that he made H2Cl .

I think mitch made a typo due to tiredness and now he is napping.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: Mitch on April 17, 2006, 01:33:48 AM: He made an acidic aqueous solution of dissolved sodium and chlorine, nothing more.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: billnotgatez on April 17, 2006, 03:05:13 AM: I assume you are saying that because the original post did not mention a heating proceedure.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: Mitch on April 17, 2006, 03:29:22 AM: I didn't know you could make HCl from the above reaction at elevated temperatures.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: Borek on April 17, 2006, 06:09:07 AM: Quote from: Mitch on April 17, 2006, 03:29:22 AM
I didn't know you could make HCl from the above reaction at elevated temperatures.

It requires concentrated sulfuric acid and solid NaCl.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: Borek on April 17, 2006, 06:12:21 AM: Quote from: P-man on April 16, 2006, 08:09:55 PM
I did this experiment today where I added some sulphuric acid to some table salt.

NaCl + H₂SO₄ --> NaSO₄ + H₂Cl

What is this?

http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=3709.msg16210#msg16210

You haven't learnt much since :-\
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: AWK on April 17, 2006, 08:06:24 AM: Using cols concentrated H2SO4 and solid NaCl the following reaction proceeds
NaCl + H2SO4 = HCl(g) + NaHSO4
During warming
NaHSO4 + NaCl = Na2SO4 + HCl(g)
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: P-man on April 17, 2006, 03:12:16 PM: Well I can say that I was using solid NaCl and concentrated sulphuric acid.

Well I guess that my HCl just evaporated away and I was left with an aqueous solution of NaHSO₄.

I say this and argue against Mitch's viewpoint because there was a gas escaping form the test tube, so the whole reaction was not purely liquid. Assuming my equation is what happened, then I would want to know what I can do with NaHSO₄. And what would it be called? Sodium Hydrosulphate?
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: pantone159 on April 17, 2006, 05:06:42 PM: Quote from: P-man on April 17, 2006, 03:12:16 PM
And what would it be called? Sodium Hydrosulphate?

Sodium bisulfate, or sodium hydrogen sulfate. The first is more common, but the second term is less confusing.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: constant thinker on April 17, 2006, 05:37:52 PM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bisulfate

Do you have any dirty surfaces? It says it has a use as a household cleaner.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: billnotgatez on April 18, 2006, 04:22:53 AM: You still do not state what you did for the experiment completely. Did you just throw the chemicals together at room temperature? Did you heat the mixture? Did you bubble any of the gas produced through water? You do not have to write an abstract, introduction, etc to give us a better idea what you did, but what you posted is piecemeal and difficult understand. At this point, I can only surmise that you chucked a few chemicals together and watched to see what happened. Then you guessed a formula, which was incorrect, and postulated conclusions based on imprecise observations. A lot of time we can just throw something together to get an idea of a possible experiment, but then we have to repeat in a structured way so as to get at least a little more precise observation. I like when people experiment and learn, but I get disappointed when it is done in a sloppy way. Keep experimenting, but please tell us the whole story.

Also keep safety in mind.

AWK -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim_process

I would have opted for the Mannheim process formula
2 NaCl + H2SO4 = Na2SO4 + 2 HCl

I would have never guessed the formulae you posted.

Seems there is more than one way this reaction can happen.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: Mitch on April 18, 2006, 04:46:43 AM: If HCl(g) is a possible side product, then I hope you are doing these experiments outside.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: billnotgatez on April 18, 2006, 05:09:55 AM: Quote from: Mitch on April 18, 2006, 04:46:43 AM
If HCl(g) is a possible side product, then I hope you are doing these experiments outside.

Or using a hood
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: constant thinker on April 18, 2006, 06:54:09 PM: Quote from: billnotgatez on April 18, 2006, 04:22:53 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim_process

I would have opted for the Mannheim process formula
2 NaCl + H2SO4 = Na2SO4 + 2 HCl

I'm assuming that it requires heat right? Wiki, atleast the english article, doesn't state much else than the equation. I'm going to consider this reaction. I'll bubble it into deionized water.
Title: Re: Experiment
Post by: P-man on April 18, 2006, 07:09:39 PM: When I did the experiment I was trying to get HCl. I knew I couldn't get it to a collectable state at room temprature, but I did it anyways (outside). When I made my first calculations I thought that I had failed to make HCl and made the non-existent H₂Cl. Then you guys helped me and got me on track. Thanks to the Wikipedia article I can prove that I did make HCl, though not in a collectable fashion. Now I am going to get some more experimenting apparatus and make HCl in a collectable state.

Thanks for all the help,