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Chemistry Forums for Students => Organic Chemistry Forum => Organic Chemistry Forum for Graduate Students and Professionals => Topic started by: phth on November 22, 2017, 06:06:10 PM

Title: nonane contamination
Post by: phth on November 22, 2017, 06:06:10 PM
I seem to be having a contamination problem with nonane, and I cannot figure out where it is coming from. I was wondering if anyone has observed the same problem.  So far I can't trace it back to solvents or septa... :-[
Thanks
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: wildfyr on November 23, 2017, 10:00:05 AM
As in, something is in your nonane, or nonane is getting into something else.
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: OrganicDan96 on November 23, 2017, 12:47:47 PM
are you sure its nonane?
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: pgk on November 23, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
Nonane and similar aliphatic hydrocarbons are usual components of petroleum ethers and hydrocarbons based-glassware grease. As being highly hydrophobic, non-polar and having high boiling point (>130oC), they are not easily removed from glassware by washing with detergents, rinsing with acetone/ethanol or drying in the lab’s oven. So, traces of nonane and similar hydrocarbons might remain in the glassware and significantly contaminate reagents and products, especially when working in mg scale.
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: phth on November 23, 2017, 03:03:25 PM
As in, something is in your nonane, or nonane is getting into something else.
Nonane is in my something.
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: wildfyr on November 23, 2017, 07:36:29 PM
Tried rinsing stuff with hexane or toluene or diethyl ether? I'm pretty shocked it won't get evaporated in an oven. Gasoline evaporates off concrete under ambient conditions pretty quickly, and it contains nonane.

Are you dead sure it's nonane?
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: pgk on November 24, 2017, 12:41:56 PM
Theoretically, yes but in practice, no!
In common lab practice, drying of glassware is effectuated by heating in the oven at 50-60oC for 20-30 min or less, if hurrying up.
On the other hand, n-nonane has MW = 128, bp = 151oC and heat capacity = 0.506 cal/(grxgrad) at 60oC.
According to the Trouton’s rule, n-nonane has evaporation enthalpy ΔH = 21x(273 + 151) = 8,904 cal/mol = 8.9 kcal/mol  that corresponds to latent heat of vaporization = 70 cal/gr.
Thus, when placed in an oven and heated from room temperature (20oC) to 60oC, 1 gr of n-nonane needs the offer of 70 + 0.5x40 = 90 cal (which is not so fast procedure in an oven that is plenty of various glassware), in order to start to evaporate.
Then, the kinetics of evaporation follows the corresponding Langmuir’s equation. However, evaporation stops when the vapor pressure over the n-nonane droplets equalizes with its partial pressure in the oven’s atmosphere. Furthermore, condensation starts when the partial pressure continues to increase. Note that both these procedures are quite fast in an oven that is plenty of vapors from various solvents.
In other words and in order to completely remove heavy solvents (bp > 100oC) from glassware, drying must be effectuated at 70-80oC for a few to several hours, depending on the boiling point of the particular solvent.
The same happens to the heavy fractions of gasoline. Anyway, concrete substrate in open space is different than the oven’s inner environment.
PS: Note that Trouton's rule leads to approximations and thus, estimated thermodynamic values are indicative and may slightly differ from experimental ones.
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: wildfyr on November 25, 2017, 10:14:18 PM
Well I have a somewhat dickheaded request then: why not either turn the oven up or heat gun the glassware for a minute under vacuum before use?

Doing this might at least hint at your contamination source.
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: Arkcon on November 26, 2017, 08:48:39 AM
Not really a bad idea, wildfyr:.  When confronted with a trace contamination that a sensitive analytical method keeps turning up, what's needed is vigorous, even extreme cleaning.  If only to track down the source, and then say, "Did my best, and can only get the contamination just so low."  Maybe, for the best results, you'll need to purchase dedicated vials, and use them only once.  But you'll have to justify that.
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: phth on November 26, 2017, 05:29:41 PM
Well I have a somewhat dickheaded request then: why not either turn the oven up or heat gun the glassware for a minute under vacuum before use?

Doing this might at least hint at your contamination source.

No you're right I haven't been heating my flasks real hot prior to use.
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: Flatbutterfly on November 28, 2017, 03:47:18 PM
Further to pgk's comment: do you use Apiezon grease on your glass joints?
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: phth on November 29, 2017, 12:55:12 AM
Further to pgk's comment: do you use Apiezon grease on your glass joints?

Wow, you're right. I did one time to measure the vacuum difference comparing apeizon to silicon grease because it was discounted.  I switched back and noticed the problem over time.
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: pgk on November 29, 2017, 05:38:55 AM
Overheating flaks, followed by cooling prior to use risks to attract atmospheric humidity which will start to condensate in the cooled flask. So, the best is to heat the flask with the flame, waiting to cool at 60-70oC and then keeping it in the oven, ready for use.
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: wildfyr on November 29, 2017, 03:10:41 PM
pgk, isnt it standard to allow glassware to cool down under N2 flow or vacuum? phth is an experienced enough chemist not to make that mistake! (I hope).
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: Flatbutterfly on November 29, 2017, 03:52:42 PM
Apiezon grease consists of high MW hydrocarbons.  Nonane might be the lowest boiling component of the grease or part of Apiezon in your sample.  Further to wildfyr’s comment, how did you confirm that your contaminant was nonane?  [GC (MS), H-NMR ?]  Most chemists use far too much Apiezon on their ground glass joints: you need the thinnest of films (without streaking).  It is also notoriously soluble in CH2Cl2 and once your solvent is contaminated then all is lost for those experiments.  Run an H-NMR of your NMR solvent with a trace of Apiezon (blobs around 0.9 and 1.3 ppm); silicone grease appears at ~0 ppm.  Use Teflon joints for solvent pots.  And good luck!
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: phth on November 29, 2017, 08:58:24 PM
pgk, isnt it standard to allow glassware to cool down under N2 flow or vacuum? phth is an experienced enough chemist not to make that mistake! (I hope).

Yeah, I understand.  I noticed that the ground glass connection between the RBF and tube connectors were ruining my vacuum, so I went on the side of not heating them up to long to prevent the glassware from warping.  Teflon tape is the way to go though, so I guess it doesn't matter...
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: pgk on November 30, 2017, 10:14:16 AM
Vacuum is not a good choice because air (humidity content included) will violently penetrate into the flask, when vacuum being broken. Besides, N2 is not visible and it is lighter than air and consequently, it will escape first from the hot flask and leave space to moisturized air to penetrate thereinto.
Another option is cooling glassware in a desiccator with P2O5. But I doubt if there are available desiccators that are large enough, to contain a 500ml three-neck flask plus the appropriate condenser plus the dropping funnel, etc. 
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: wildfyr on November 30, 2017, 01:19:42 PM
You don't break the vacuum with air after pulling vac on heat dried glassware, you gently backfill with dry nitrogen from a tank, typically via a valve system on a shlenk line, then add reagents and solvents. The system never sees ambient air.

This is basic air/water free procedure in most labs...right? I pray?
Title: Re: nonane contamination
Post by: pgk on November 30, 2017, 02:17:10 PM
Yes, right!
Gradual break of vacuum with simultaneous and slight nitrogen flow, is the way to avoid the violent penetration of air. However, this is a convenient technique in industrial or pilot scale, using steel equipment but it is rather delicate in the lab and needs special attention, especially when working with tiny glassware.