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Chemistry Forums for Students => High School Chemistry Forum => Topic started by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 12:10:59 PM

Title: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 12:10:59 PM
Hello guys,

I have a question regarding the units of the following question:

What volume of a 0.10 mol dm–3 solution of NaOH is needed to neutralise 30 cm3 of a
0.20 mol dm–3 aqueous solution of a diprotic acid?


how can we translate dm^-3 into other units ? like, for example, in cm^3 or m^3?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: Arkcon on December 12, 2017, 12:49:07 PM
What do the units dm, cm, and for that matter, m stand for?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 12:52:50 PM
decimetre, cenitmetre, metre...
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 01:24:30 PM
Ok, and a quick question regarding to the substance of the question:


a diprotic acid consists of the formula H_2 X ... why do I have to multiply 0,2mol dm^-3 times 2 ? I mean the question explicitly states that 0,2 mole OF sth... isnt the diprotic acid in total 0,2 mole dm^-3?


Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: sjb on December 12, 2017, 01:45:23 PM
Ok, and a quick question regarding to the substance of the question:


a diprotic acid consists of the formula H_2 X ... why do I have to multiply 0,2mol dm^-3 times 2 ? I mean the question explicitly states that 0,2 mole OF sth... isnt the diprotic acid in total 0,2 mole dm^-3?

Yes, but what else is in your question. What is happening in your reaction?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 01:52:32 PM
NaOH gets used up...
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 02:01:29 PM
Do you mean we need 4x NaOH because of the fact that we got a diprotic acid?

2*0,2=0,4
0,4/0,1=4
4*30=120...
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: Arkcon on December 12, 2017, 02:23:46 PM
WHat is the NaOH doing?  What is it "used up" by?  Why does a "di" protic acid seem to "use up" twice the NaOH?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 02:24:55 PM
That I do not know...
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 02:25:36 PM
It acts as a base, but I dont know why twice the amount is reacting...
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: Arkcon on December 12, 2017, 02:27:00 PM
I hope you don't mind us answering your questions with more questions, but that's what we do here.  We try to help you learn to help yourself.  Its part of our Forum Rules{click} (http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=65859.0).  If you're still stuck, why not write out the whole problem, including what you've learned in this thread, all at one to see it all together.
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 02:29:04 PM
Well, I know that twice the amount of NaOH should react, and that would explain the solution (120cm^3)... but I don't know why twice the amount of NaOH reacts..
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: Borek on December 12, 2017, 03:36:54 PM
Start with the reaction equation.

http://www.titrations.info/titration-calculation
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 03:49:47 PM
2NaOH + H2SO4 → Na2SO4 + 2H2O... (for example)
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 03:56:14 PM
the mole ratio is 2:1, this explains it, right ?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
But I have a question again here: why do we take 0,2 time 2 and not 0,1 ? I mean, it says that 0,1 mol of NaOH react, or not?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 12, 2017, 05:44:46 PM
Well, I think I got it now: we got 0,2 mole of diprotic acid, so twice the amount of NaOH.

If you do the math: 0,2/0,1=2

2*0,1=0,2

0,2* 2 (since we got two moles of NaOH)= 0,4.


right?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: DrCMS on December 13, 2017, 03:57:16 AM
Well, I think I got it now: we got 0,2 mole of diprotic acid,
right?

No, you have 30cm3 of a 0.2mol per dm3 solution.  How many moles is that?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 13, 2017, 04:53:29 AM
6 moles?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: DrCMS on December 13, 2017, 06:43:19 AM
No.  Stop randomly guessing.

What is 30cm3 equal to in dm3?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 13, 2017, 07:04:42 AM
3 dm^3
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 13, 2017, 07:19:47 AM
so we got 3*0,2 moles of the acid...

since we got two molecules NaOH, we need 1,2 moles of NaOH.
12/0,1= we need 12 dm^3 (or 120 cm^3) of NaOH right?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: DrCMS on December 13, 2017, 07:36:20 AM
Yes 30cm = 3dm but 30cm3 ≠3dm3
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 13, 2017, 07:39:46 AM
0,03 dm^3 ...
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 13, 2017, 07:51:18 AM
But my last post was basically ok, right?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: peterschmidt3943 on December 13, 2017, 02:58:03 PM
by the way: the solutions are also stated in cm^3...

so, I think that one can get to the soultion as follwoing:

30*0,2=6moles are used of the acid.

6/0,1=60*2=120cm^3 are needed... right ?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: sjb on December 13, 2017, 03:52:09 PM
by the way: the solutions are also stated in cm^3...

so, I think that one can get to the soultion as follwoing:

30*0,2=6moles are used of the acid.

6/0,1=60*2=120cm^3 are needed... right ?

Maybe, but your error cancels. What does mol dm–3 mean? How would you answer if one volume was needed in dm3 and the given was in cm3?
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: Enthalpy on December 13, 2017, 07:15:23 PM
mol×dm–3 means mol/dm3.
For units as for other exponentials, a negative exponent means "divide".

By the way, the ISO recommends this use, rather than the divide "/" sign which is sometimes meant to apply to several units that follow.
Like J/(kg×K) is sometimes erroneously written J/kg×K while J×kg-1×K-1 is unequivocal.
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: sjb on December 14, 2017, 03:51:11 AM
mol×dm–3 means mol/dm3.
For units as for other exponentials, a negative exponent means "divide".

By the way, the ISO recommends this use, rather than the divide "/" sign which is sometimes meant to apply to several units that follow.
Like J/(kg×K) is sometimes erroneously written J/kg×K while J×kg-1×K-1 is unequivocal.

True, but not necessarily appropriate to the question in hand.
Title: Re: Chemistry Unit
Post by: Enthalpy on December 14, 2017, 08:38:22 AM
Yes. I had misinterpreted this:
how can we translate dm^-3 into other units ? like, for example, in cm^3 or m^3?