[Khem1000]

]Hi all,  I won't go on for too long, but am speaking from my own experiences.  Can I  answer my own question? Hmm.  Yes (major) and no (minor). Yes, because:

* it was an excellent training in this field of chemistry (organic synthesis)
* it developed my synthetic laboratory skills at this level
* I have a skill-set that remains with me to this day
* can lead to related jobs in industry or academia
* some supervisory/instructing experience that could help with teaching scenarios/professions
* an academic training and way of life
* I enjoyed going into the unknown on a journey of discovery: it was something I always wanted to do
* I have achieved chemical changes that no-one has done before (to my knowledge!)
* I would have regretted not doing it, if I hadn't, in terms of 'discovering' new things - a bit like a mountaineer who find new ways to ascend a mountain.

No, because:
* in my opinion, there are too many PhDs around for the realistic number of suitable jobs in organic chemistry research
* the pharma industry is rather too competitive to get into as a research chemist (I was pre-warned about this before starting the PhD)
* perhaps I should have got more experience in industry
* more jobs are being outsourced to cheaper labor markets (e.g. India, China, Brazil etc.)
* for the time, effort and financial 'loss', I have never recovered financially compared to if I was employed after my undergraduate education in some other profession (accountancy?)
* for the last point, perhaps, I should have chosen another career path
* some employers (outside science/education) may consider it 'over-qualified'.

So it continues to remain a mixed bag for me.  I can't say about other disciplines of PhD, but they may be easier to remain in long-term (e.g. molecular biology, genetics, pharmacology).

I hear that more chemists are 'going into computers' and generally better pay.  Assuming it is a programming-related career (more that HTML, e.g. PHP, Java, database administrator), the person must have a aptitude for it, if it wasn't part of their formal degree modules; enterprise-level programming is really high-end stuff. High-school teaching and other types of educational activities seems to be another popular area for trained chemists in demand, globally, including International Schools that provide a route to get local students into westernised universities.

[Hunter2]

The fact is you have an PhD. Only this counts, it doesn't matter in which discipline you got it. In the life of work and career you will do anyway other things as you had done during your studies.

[eskil]

My opinon: No, it's not worth it.

You will most likely end up spending 5 of your best years slaving away for some a-hole. Then if you are lucky you may become a professor like him and spend your time running around writing polite, silly letters begging wealthy people or the state for money. Find a way to make money asap. Then you can do whatever you want. Easier said than done though.

So unless you want to become a professor I see no point with PhD, you can land a job in industry with a BSc even.

[mikasaur]

You will most likely end up spending 5 of your best years slaving away for some a-hole. Then if you are lucky you may become a professor like him and spend your time running around writing polite, silly letters begging wealthy people or the state for money.

Tell us how you really feel!

I'll have to show this to my GF. Her PhD is up on the wall next to my BS and she says that proves I'm smarter than her.

[eskil]

You will most likely end up spending 5 of your best years slaving away for some a-hole. Then if you are lucky you may become a professor like him and spend your time running around writing polite, silly letters begging wealthy people or the state for money.

Tell us how you really feel!

I'll have to show this to my GF. Her PhD is up on the wall next to my BS and she says that proves I'm smarter than her.

Well, actually I don't have a PhD so I am not speaking from own experience but I have heard my fair share of horror stories from friends and collegues... And really its enough to just look around to see, takes no Einstien.

[Dan]

Academia is not the only track a PhD prepares you for. It's true you can enter industry with a BSc, but having a PhD means you enter at a higher level and may speed up career progression.

There are also several non-research jobs for which a PhD helps or is even required. Patent attorney is a big one. I also have friends who went into publishing after completing a PhD.

Yes there are horror stories and some very unpleasant PIs in the world, but there are also a lot of nice working environments in academia. It can be a bit of a minefield, but if you do some digging around you can avoid the psychopathic PI problem and have a lot of fun in academia. I do think the main reason to do a PhD should be because you enjoy research, otherwise there are probably easier ways to get what you want.

[eskil]

Academia is not the only track a PhD prepares you for. It's true you can enter industry with a BSc, but having a PhD means you enter at a higher level and may speed up career progression.

Spending 5 years in industry climbing the career ladder is better spent than slaving in academia for a diploma which may or may not land you a job, but thats just my opinion.

Yes there are horror stories and some very unpleasant PIs in the world, but there are also a lot of nice working environments in academia. It can be a bit of a minefield, but if you do some digging around you can avoid the psychopathic PI problem and have a lot of fun in academia. I do think the main reason to do a PhD should be because you enjoy research, otherwise there are probably easier ways to get what you want.

Well if you have enough money you can have professors and PhDs working for you -- and even laughing at your bad jokes. Working for someone else really kills the joy of doing research. But it really all boils down to money, although in academia this is a too vulgar word so they are busy "applying for funding".

[Dan]

Spending 5 years in industry climbing the career ladder is better spent than slaving in academia for a diploma which may or may not land you a job, but thats just my opinion.

Fair enough, there is certainly no guarantee that a PhD will land anyone a job. I never felt like a slave though. I don't think I regularly did >45 hours a week (either as a PhD or a postdoc), and if I did it was because I wanted to.

Well if you have enough money you can have professors and PhDs working for you -- and even laughing at your bad jokes. Working for someone else really kills the joy of doing research.

Depends on the PI. Fortunately I have worked under PIs that have always allowed me to explore my own research projects and run projects for masters and junior PhD students. Sure there were specific areas they wanted me to look at, but I had the time and freedom to roam around, make my own mistakes and make a few of my own successes too. They were all very "hands off" - there when I needed them, but not interfering when I didn't. Some of them told good jokes too. I consider my PhD supervisor a good friend and mentor, we are still in touch since I left his group 5 years ago. Yes, some PIs are micromanaging, abusive lunatics, but it's a minority and I can't believe those people don't exist outside of academic science.

But it really all boils down to money, although in academia this is a too vulgar word so they are busy "applying for funding".

And industry/private sector doesn't boil down to money? Academia is a business these days too, especially the US-style model (UK also). There are other systems in different places/countries, which have different benefits and of course different problems.

Academia is in no way perfect, but from my experience it's not the research sweatshop you are painting it as.

[eskil]

Yeah, but its kind of a loser business. One that, for example, writes articles and gives them away for free to some companies that sell them and keep all the profits. Then it asks the same companies if they can spare some change. Why would anyone want to work in such place? It is humiliating. Not talking about some psychopaths / bad apples here.

Speaking of UK, I hear UK universities are world-famous for being... old?

[Irlanur]

Thank for your well-informed and balanced opinion, eskil. I will definitely not do a PhD in OC.