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Topic: Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ ion?  (Read 250 times)

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Offline IBM

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Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ ion?
« on: July 23, 2019, 02:08:42 PM »
Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ as I know that atom has fixed proton number, there is no change? N has 7 protons in the neutral state but when H+ comes to N and accepts two lone paired electrons of N, N becomes N to N+ why?
My question is if N has 7 protons fixed and no matter what reaction happens the number of protons does not change but why N got positive charge after the H+ receives two lone paired electrons of N? How H+ ion can combine to the protons of N and produce N+? I am confused. Explain it, please.

Offline Borek

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Re: Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ ion?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2019, 03:05:24 PM »
You are mistaking charge of the whole entity (NH4+) with charge on the N atom. In NH4+ the latter doesn't make much sense, it is whole ion that matters, and its total charge depends on the number of protons (both in N and in four H) and number electrons from all sources.

Count protons, count electrons. What do you get?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 04:39:32 PM by Borek »
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Offline IBM

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Re: Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ ion?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2019, 09:24:34 PM »
You are mistaking charge of the whole entity (NH4+) with the charge on the N atom. In NH4+ the latter doesn't make much sense, it is the whole ion that matters, and its total charge depends on the number of protons (both in N and in four H) and number electrons from all sources.

Count protons, count electrons. What do you get?
10 electrons and 11 protons. Could you discuss the charge on the whole entity vs the charge on the individual atoms with examples, please? Here are CH3+ and NH4+. I just learned that the charge on NH4+ is the charge on the whole entity but what's about CH3+?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 09:51:36 PM by IBM »

Offline Borek

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Re: Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ ion?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2019, 02:41:24 AM »
10 electrons and 11 protons.

So what is the resulting charge?
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Offline chenbeier

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Re: Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ ion?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2019, 03:46:25 AM »
Quote
what's about CH3+?

It is the same method: Carbon has 6 protons, each Hydrogen has 1 gives 9 Protons total. The number of electrons are 5 for Carbon and 3 for all Hydrogen gives 8.

So you have 9 Protons and 8 Electrons so what is the charge?

Offline IBM

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Re: Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ ion?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2019, 10:28:42 AM »
Quote
what's about CH3+?

It is the same method: Carbon has 6 protons, each Hydrogen has 1 gives 9 Protons total. The number of electrons is 5 for Carbon and 3 for all Hydrogen gives 8.

So you have 9 Protons and 8 Electrons so what is the charge?
1 positive charge. But my question is why carbon has 5 electrons? it should have 6 electrons as electrons are the same in number as protons.

Offline IBM

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Re: Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ ion?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2019, 10:35:03 AM »
10 electrons and 11 protons.

So what is the resulting charge?
1 positive charge

Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: Why does N get positive charge on it in NH4+ ion?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2019, 10:49:09 AM »
1 positive charge. But my question is why carbon has 5 electrons? it should have 6 electrons as electrons are the same in number as protons.
For a free atom that is electrically neutral, the number of electrons is the same as the number of protons.  One cannot assume that this is true in all situations.

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