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Topic: Synthesis of isotopically labeled octahydrophenazine  (Read 3333 times)

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Offline kriggy

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Re: Synthesis of isotopically labeled octahydrophenazine
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2019, 03:18:11 PM »
@enthalpy: depends on what do you mean by few atoms? Usually you dont need more than 2 deuteriums for labeled reference compounds and using the conditions described, I got 6 protons (out of 8 ) fully deuterated (98% D incorporation according to NMR) and the last two without any deuterium at all.
I suggest you look into the paper because you get basically full deuteration of aromatic (with Pt/C catalyst) or aliphatic (with Pd/C catalyst) protons so there is really no need to do it in a way you desribe (for small amount of compound in laboratory scale).

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: Synthesis of isotopically labeled octahydrophenazine
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2019, 01:20:18 PM »
Hi Rolnor, Kriggy and the others,

I should have told it more clearly. The paper's single step achieves a strong replacement of H by D in the target molecule because D2O is in large excess indeed.

To my understanding, less D2O would limit the achieved D/H proportion at the target as water loses some D exchanged for H. There is no selectivity here, only some levelling among the molecules.

For some uses, for instance to produce deuterated molecules for sale, the consumption of D2O would be a waste. To bring the same amount of D to the target, exploiting D2O from <100% purity to >98% means <2% of the bought D is used, letting consume 50* too much D2O.

My multi-step (or continuous) proposal, not quite convenient at lab scale for sure, lets save on the D2O consumption by depleting it further and still achieving high D proportion in the target.

Offline wildfyr

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Re: Synthesis of isotopically labeled octahydrophenazine
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2019, 08:58:40 PM »
You can always collect your D2O/H2O mixture and repurify, but also you can use the same solution over and over. A 100:3 ratio is going to substitute D for H about as well as a 97:3 ratio. It's only after several cycles that you may start to see worse substitution.

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: Synthesis of isotopically labeled octahydrophenazine
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2019, 06:58:52 AM »
Yes.

Purifying D2O and using it is often done at different companies.

Depending on the sought substitution and the excess of D2O, it can serve again, but the consumption per amount of product remains.

Hence I certainly don't claim that my multistep setup is always necessary. It can be interesting in some circumstances, like the amount production of heavily substituted compounds.

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