[Jeffrey777]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA52WUqeIpA&t=2s


This is an experiment in which I took a methanol/water solution, mixed it with an amino acid mixture containing cysteine and methionine (both contain sulfur), and attempted to create fatty acids.



https://books.google.com/books?id=JiPpCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=%22CH3SH%22+%22methanol%22+%22fatty+acids%22++%22prebiotic%22&source=bl&ots=6PQtLojrwg&sig=zbwrpdxfL1ys770lbN-ECuyViDs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiaqFwIffAhXKmq0KHR2OAikQ6AEwCHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Jeffrey777]

The vesicle structures produced from this experiment could also be proteinoid microspheres.

[rolnor]

This seems like complete nonsense...

[Jeffrey777]

How so?

[Jeffrey777]

Rolnor,

       I was looking for an explanation of what these vesicle structures could be, since a solution of amino acids mixed with methanol to which nothing is done will not produce vesicles like the ones pictured in my video.  Since you seem to know enough to call this nonsense, then maybe you could explain why there are vesicles pictured here when nothing like this is observed in an untreated solution of methanol and amino acids?

[rolnor]

Rolnor,

       I was looking for an explanation of what these vesicle structures could be, since a solution of amino acids mixed with methanol to which nothing is done will not produce vesicles like the ones pictured in my video.  Since you seem to know enough to call this nonsense, then maybe you could explain why there are vesicles pictured here when nothing like this is observed in an untreated solution of methanol and amino acids?

My first response whas not very nice but from what I can understand you dont know very much about the chemistry/biochemistry you are trying to make, do you know the difference between lipids and amino acids? Why are you using methanol in your work, this is not something normally used in biochemistry? The nice picture you got in the youtube video, is that a picture you have taken yourself, do you have excess to a advanced electron-microscope? I dont want to be rude but your work does not seem to be based on knowledge of these systems but more like play/bio-hack-fun.

[Jeffrey777]

I certainly do know the difference between lipids and amino acids. I have a usb light microscope.  That photo was taken at 1000X magnification.  The experiment which I did is another variation on this quotation from google.books.com.  Here it is if you want to see it.  I couldn't use UV light along with my autoclave, because my autoclave is a closed system.
 
Here is the quotation which was my inspiration for the experiment.

https://books.google.com/books?id=JiPpCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=%22CH3SH%22+%22methanol%22+%22fatty+acids%22++%22prebiotic%22&source=bl&ots=6PQtLojrwg&sig=zbwrpdxfL1ys770lbN-ECuyViDs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiaqFwIffAhXKmq0KHR2OAikQ6AEwCHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Now, of course they are using methyl mercaptan to get to the end product of fatty acids, but I just decided to use the amino acid cysteine to achieve the same result.

[phth]

I certainly do know the difference between lipids and amino acids. I have a usb light microscope.  That photo was taken at 1000X magnification.  The experiment which I did is another variation on this quotation from google.books.com.  Here it is if you want to see it.  I couldn't use UV light along with my autoclave, because my autoclave is a closed system.
 
Here is the quotation which was my inspiration for the experiment.

https://books.google.com/books?id=JiPpCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=%22CH3SH%22+%22methanol%22+%22fatty+acids%22++%22prebiotic%22&source=bl&ots=6PQtLojrwg&sig=zbwrpdxfL1ys770lbN-ECuyViDs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiaqFwIffAhXKmq0KHR2OAikQ6AEwCHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Now, of course they are using methyl mercaptan to get to the end product of fatty acids, but I just decided to use the amino acid cysteine to achieve the same result.

"the same result" How can you conclude something is the same via a picture? It reminds me of people theorizing that StOnE hInGe wAs BuIlt bY aLiEnS

[Jeffrey777]

Thanks!  This is why I wanted peer review on my experiment.  So, what else could those vesicular structures be besides some kind of lipid?

[rolnor]

Thanks!  This is why I wanted peer review on my experiment.  So, what else could those vesicular structures be besides some kind of lipid?

Again you wright about lipids, how can you get a lipid from two amino acids and methanol? Can you explain the difference between lipids and amino acids?

[Jeffrey777]

The experiment was to see if I could substitute the amino acids cysteine and methionine, both of which contain sulfur in place of methyl mercaptan and achieve the same result.



https://books.google.com/books?id=JiPpCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=%22CH3SH%22+%22methanol%22+%22fatty+acids%22++%22prebiotic%22&source=bl&ots=6PQtLojrwg&sig=zbwrpdxfL1ys770lbN-ECuyViDs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiaqFwIffAhXKmq0KHR2OAikQ6AEwCHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false



methyl mercaptan = CH3-SH

cysteine = SH-CH2-CH-NH2-COOH

methionine = CH3-S-CH2-CH2-CH-NH2-COOH

Now, if you heat cysteine over 240 C (300 C) with methanol, it's possible that one of the decomposition products would be CH3-SH, which would then react with additional methanol to produce fatty acids, as described in the google books page which I have linked to here.  I can certainly explain the difference between lipids and amino acids.  Fatty acids have a long carbon chain with a carboxyl group (COOH) at one end of the chain.  Amino acids have a much shorter carbon chain, and they also have an amine group (NH2) in addition to the carboxyl group.

[Jeffrey777]

I was particularly interested in the amino acids cysteine and methionine, because they both contain sulfur, and CYSTEINE ESPECIALLY has a sulfhydryl group just like methyl mercaptan does CH3-SH.

[Jeffrey777]

So, NOW does everyone see what I am getting at here???  Also, the reaction mechanism pictured on the google.books article which I have linked to involves CO2, which I pumped into my autoclave prior to starting the experiment.

[rolnor]

So, NOW does everyone see what I am getting at here???  Also, the reaction mechanism pictured on the google.books article which I have linked to involves CO2, which I pumped into my autoclave prior to starting the experiment.

I understand now, thanks. I wonder if you dont have to use a better analysis method then microscopy? The particles you see could be many different things?

[Jeffrey777]

Thanks!  I know...there are quite a few possibilities.  I have to say that I was wrong to assume that they MUST BE fatty acids, only because that's what I was trying to make.  Confirmation bias is not a good thing in science, that's why I came here to subject my experiment to peer review.