July 03, 2020, 05:56:27 AM
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Topic: human sweat damages PTFE surface, is it possible to clean it somehow ?  (Read 483 times)

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Offline empleat

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I always had problem, each mouse i buy, already after 2 weeks has too much friction. I notice spots already after first use on bottom of mouse feet, which are from PTFE. I read liquid sodium used for PTFE surface etching, increases surface's adhesion. I though about using gloves, but i have large hands and they are hard to get by.

How does sodium, or other elements, which are contained in human sweat react with PTFE ? Does sweat damage PTFE permanently, because it seems so. I tried pretty much everything: cleaning with microfiber cloth, or using even water, isopropyl alcohol etc. But nothing worked ! These spots stay there and i cannot get rid of them. And friction permanently increased. I am not chemist, you would have to be professional with lab to figure out how to remove these spots, if it is even possible in this time, because who knows what is happening there on molecular, or atomic level... Mouse skates aren't cheap and these installed by hand, aren't as good as original and i have same problem with mousepads.

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: human sweat damages PTFE surface, is it possible to clean it somehow ?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2020, 09:54:02 AM »
Welcome, Empleat!

I doubt that sweat deteriorates Ptfe. Salt in sweat contains Na+ ions, which are not liquid Na. All compatibility tables tell that Ptfe resists table salt, including brine.

Maybe your mouse feet are not of Ptfe. Pp or Pa would be a natural choice for me, gliding well, and much more durable than Ptfe that abrades quickly.

My mouse too rubs more strongly after few weeks, but it's a matter of dirt. I've suppressed any mouse pad and use the mouse on the desk surface since I have an optical mouse. Every few weeks, I clean the mouse feet and the desk area with any dry cloth, and the mouse glides again.

Offline empleat

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Re: human sweat damages PTFE surface, is it possible to clean it somehow ?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2020, 09:55:08 AM »
Thing is i cover mouse at night and never touch it with dirty hands and clean it with microfiber cloth.

So explain to me, how come after my hands sweating, there are created weird spots on bottom of mouse skates, which weren't there previously ? That has to have some reason - that it exists ! If not sweat that what ? It wasn't there when mouse was new. There is more things in human sweat, couldn't it be something else ? And is there some substance, that would clear these spots ?

I wish i could choose pp, pa. But never heard about mouse skates like that. I heard ceramic mouse skates have less friction, but they don't exactly fit on places, where default skates were, so there may be problem with stability etc. Also it may be too slick on polymersurfaces. Maybe i am gonna try them, but it would be nice to have something to reduce friction !!!

What about silicone spray on ptfe mouse skates and polymer, aluminium, glass, or cloth. Wouldn't it damage these surfaces ? There was one product to increase slickness between surfaces from steelseries, but it doesn't sell anymore. I don't know what i should use, so i don't make it even worse. I think i tried wd-45 once on worn out mouse and it didn't help, made things worse.

This really frustrated me long time, because there is not much i can do. Any ideas would be helpful thanks ! And i don't have money to buy everything new every 2 weeks !
Do you think polisher would help ?: https://youtu.be/PQrt1PEM1Qo?t=218
I would try anything at this point !

Offline Corribus

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Re: human sweat damages PTFE surface, is it possible to clean it somehow ?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2020, 12:25:09 PM »
Even clean skin has oils and other substances on it that can contact transfer to other surfaces. Also soap leaves residues that you don't see, and so does hard water. Easily these oils and other substance could create enough residue to roughen a polymer surface, and cleaning without abrasion and chemicals probably is not effective.

There's that. Plus polymers themselves do age. They do this chiefly by UV light and oxidation in air (particularly polypropylene). These processes do not happen quickly in most cases, but kinetics could be affected by aforementioned substances, which can permeate into plastics and change their mechanical properties, sensitize oxidation, and so forth. Fresh polymer will also outgas or otherwise leach various residual solvents and additives used during manufacture, and this can contribute to polymer aging as well. This may also be chiefly observed during the first week or so after opening the product and using it for the first time.

I don't have a sense of how much of a change in friction you are experiencing. I get the feeling these are only minute changes that are important to you but probably most consumers would not even notice. So if the changes are indeed very small, some of the above mentioned factors could easily account for it.
What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?  - Richard P. Feynman

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: human sweat damages PTFE surface, is it possible to clean it somehow ?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2020, 03:01:23 PM »
I bet for dirt on the mousepad being picked by the mouse feet.

The increase of friction is quite noticeable to me too. My answer was to remove the mousepad and clean regularly this desk area.

Offline empleat

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Re: human sweat damages PTFE surface, is it possible to clean it somehow ?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2020, 11:55:35 AM »
So are there any chemicals i can use at home ? Isopropyl alcohol had no effect.

So do not use soap/dishwashing soap and water on polymer surface ? I read from manufacturer steelseries: you can clean polymer surfaces with soap and water as well cloth. But from razer, you should never ever use water on cloth,  i concur from experience.

I also read about polishing mouse skates with abrasive pads, although i don't understand how is that polishing. And it only improves friction slightly. Besides i am not dexterous with my hands. And if you don't apply same force, you can do more harm than good. So i don't think that would work out for me. But cleaning even table from dust not only mousepad, that is something i was slacking in. But still i think main problem is sweat, these spots cause majority of friction. In winter 3 months it was fine, one time at summer hand sweat and mouse instantly had insane friction.

It is so stressful. I was near pro level in pc games and i had to quit, because friction. And that i can't do anything. You would have to be like 200 iq genius calculating all these probabilities, maintaning perfect atmosphere. Reducing number of substances your mouse and mousepad comes into contact with. Maintaining you skin. Using pico technology to remove all these small things from surface, which doesn't even exists yet... Is there anything i can do ? I though maybe silicone spray...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 12:06:06 PM by empleat »

Offline empleat

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So is there any chemical, which can be used at home to clean spots from sweating on bottom of ptfe mouse skates ? Because i think that is major problem, more than abrasions. 3 months in winter everything fine, even one time my hand sweat and i can already tell difference !!!

Offline Borek

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Can't think of anything better than just soft water with a bit of a detergent.
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