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Topic: Making glacial acetic acid  (Read 511 times)

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Offline gatewood

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Making glacial acetic acid
« on: February 19, 2020, 04:30:17 AM »
Hey everyone!

I've begun to produce some acetic acid (vinegar) by culturing some mother of vinegar. I've read that, pure acetic acid can be a potent solvent, however, separating it from water is tricky, since they're both matching azeotropes and not even fractional distillation will work out.

Does anyone know of any cheap(ish) method to accomplish this? (Im not that interested in getting a very pure batch, 50% or more is good enough for me).

Offline pgk

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2020, 01:26:36 PM »
1). Glacial acetic acid means pure acetic acid and not a 50% solution.
2). Acetic acid (b.p. = 118oC) does not form azeotrope with water. However, fractional distillation of aqueous acetic acid solutions absorbs additional amounts of heat to compete ionization. Thus, concentrating 3-4% aqueous solution of acetic acid (vinegar) to a 50% one, by distillation of water is highly energy consumptive and very costly that may not worth the try.

Offline gatewood

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Extracting acetic acid (vinegar) from water
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2020, 10:00:53 PM »
Hey people!

I just finished producing some bottles of vinegar and I was wondering, if you know of a good method, to extract the acetic acid from the water? (It is kinda hard, since they form azeotropes and wont separate through fractional distillation).

I know there's already some processes described in the web, but I wanted to hear from your experience as well.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2020, 10:30:22 PM »
I have combined your posts since it is essentially the same question.
We only post a given question once on the forum.
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http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=65859.0

Offline gatewood

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2020, 01:39:13 PM »
I have combined your posts since it is essentially the same question.
We only post a given question once on the forum.
This is a forum policy.
Click on the link near the top center of the forum page.
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting.
http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=65859.0

yes, my bad, i apologize

Offline gatewood

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2020, 01:41:10 PM »
1). Glacial acetic acid means pure acetic acid and not a 50% solution.

I understand, I was stating that, such concentration represents a minimal purity that will work fine for me. Of course, the purer, the better.

2). Acetic acid (b.p. = 118oC) does not form azeotrope with water. However, fractional distillation of aqueous acetic acid solutions absorbs additional amounts of heat to compete ionization. Thus, concentrating 3-4% aqueous solution of acetic acid (vinegar) to a 50% one, by distillation of water is highly energy consumptive and very costly that may not worth the try.

hmmm... interesting, thanks for the input. Any other suggestions or methods that you recommend?

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2020, 06:43:33 PM »
From WIKI
Quote
acetic acid

Melting point   16 to 17 °C; 61 to 62 °F; 289 to 290 K
Boiling point   118 to 119 °C; 244 to 246 °F; 391 to 392 K
Solubility in water Miscible

Solvent properties
Liquid acetic acid is a hydrophilic (polar) protic solvent, similar to ethanol and water. With a moderate relative static permittivity (dielectric constant) of 6.2, it dissolves not only polar compounds such as inorganic salts and sugars, but also non-polar compounds such as oils as well as polar solutes. It is miscible with polar and non-polar solvents such as water, chloroform, and hexane. With higher alkanes (starting with octane), acetic acid is not miscible at all compositions, and solubility of acetic acid in alkanes declines with longer n-alkanes.[21] The solvent and miscibility properties of acetic acid make it a useful industrial chemical, for example, as a solvent in the production of dimethyl terephthalate.[9]

Offline pgk

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2020, 10:48:00 AM »
Whatever any suggested method is, acetic acid is a low cost, commodity material. Consequently, its preparation from vinegar that contains 3-5% of acetic acid, has a higher production than purchasing cost.   

Offline gatewood

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2020, 04:36:00 PM »
From WIKI
Quote
acetic acid

Melting point   16 to 17 °C; 61 to 62 °F; 289 to 290 K
Boiling point   118 to 119 °C; 244 to 246 °F; 391 to 392 K
Solubility in water Miscible

Solvent properties
Liquid acetic acid is a hydrophilic (polar) protic solvent, similar to ethanol and water. With a moderate relative static permittivity (dielectric constant) of 6.2, it dissolves not only polar compounds such as inorganic salts and sugars, but also non-polar compounds such as oils as well as polar solutes. It is miscible with polar and non-polar solvents such as water, chloroform, and hexane. With higher alkanes (starting with octane), acetic acid is not miscible at all compositions, and solubility of acetic acid in alkanes declines with longer n-alkanes.[21] The solvent and miscibility properties of acetic acid make it a useful industrial chemical, for example, as a solvent in the production of dimethyl terephthalate.[9]

yeah well, that doesn't help much. I found out that, it is possible to obtain high concentrations (up to 75%) using freezing destillation, if anyone is also interested.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 06:34:44 PM by gatewood »

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2020, 12:15:57 AM »
...
I've begun to produce some acetic acid (vinegar) by culturing some mother of vinegar.
...

I am curious as to what feed stock and nutrients you used for the culture. Where I live they use apple cider to make vinegar.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 01:57:43 AM by billnotgatez »

Offline gatewood

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2020, 12:55:43 PM »
...
I've begun to produce some acetic acid (vinegar) by culturing some mother of vinegar.
...

I am curious as to what feed stock and nutrients you used for the culture. Where I live they use apple cider to make vinegar.

I make my own alcohol, I use a range of sources, namely, apples, oranges, plain sugar and sugar cane.

Offline gatewood

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Re: Making glacial acetic acid
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2020, 12:59:17 AM »
1. How to catch wild yeast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqcc9ZeLBXM

2. How to make alcohol: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+ferment+alcohol

3. How to make vinegar: https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-make-homemade-vinegar-607463

If you, or anyone else is interested in the basics of the processes.

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