July 14, 2024, 10:29:05 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Electron Splitting  (Read 35885 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline zeshkani

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 99
  • Mole Snacks: +2/-17
  • Chemist ?
Electron Splitting
« on: September 18, 2006, 02:05:27 AM »
is it possible to split the electron? i mean we know that electrons have a negative charge, but what is giving the electron the negative charge? if possible to split wouldn't that cause some huge energy output. i mean iam sure there is something inside the electrons that gives it the negative charge, also if possible to split can we resplit and continue resplitting till infinity?

Offline Mitch

  • General Chemist
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
  • Mole Snacks: +376/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • "I bring you peace." -Mr. Burns
    • Chemistry Blog
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2006, 02:35:46 AM »
The electron is already a fundamental particle and can not be broken into smaller pieces.
Most Common Suggestions I Make on the Forums.
1. Start by writing a balanced chemical equation.
2. Don't confuse thermodynamic stability with chemical reactivity.
3. Forum Supports LaTex

Offline Donaldson Tan

  • Editor, New Asia Republic
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3177
  • Mole Snacks: +261/-13
  • Gender: Male
    • New Asia Republic
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2006, 01:21:06 PM »
what about quarks?
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27736
  • Mole Snacks: +1804/-411
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2006, 01:43:22 PM »
Electron is not made of quarks. Proton and neutron are.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline zeshkani

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 99
  • Mole Snacks: +2/-17
  • Chemist ?
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2006, 10:34:19 PM »
but is it no possible to split it in half, even if it dosen't contain anything inside. and i also read an article saying " Electrons are the smallest thing, and nothing can get smaller"


Offline Mitch

  • General Chemist
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
  • Mole Snacks: +376/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • "I bring you peace." -Mr. Burns
    • Chemistry Blog
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 01:09:52 AM »
You cannot split an electron further.
Most Common Suggestions I Make on the Forums.
1. Start by writing a balanced chemical equation.
2. Don't confuse thermodynamic stability with chemical reactivity.
3. Forum Supports LaTex

Offline zeshkani

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 99
  • Mole Snacks: +2/-17
  • Chemist ?
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 11:16:12 AM »

Offline Mitch

  • General Chemist
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
  • Mole Snacks: +376/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • "I bring you peace." -Mr. Burns
    • Chemistry Blog
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 12:04:24 PM »
You cannot split an electron further.
Most Common Suggestions I Make on the Forums.
1. Start by writing a balanced chemical equation.
2. Don't confuse thermodynamic stability with chemical reactivity.
3. Forum Supports LaTex

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27736
  • Mole Snacks: +1804/-411
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 01:00:26 PM »
http://www.hpcwire.com/hpc-bin/artread.pl?direction=Current&articlenumber=18711

Interesting. Quantum chemistry was never my strong side so perhaps that's my lack of knowledge, but I don't get something. Bubbles are split into two and each half contains half wave function. There was a suggestion of such explanation - and I don't get why it is rejected. If both half-bubbles travel together and are 'glued' to each other (ie can be not separated, or it is not possible to destroy/discharge one without destroying/discharging the second) - then it will be just one of those crazy results served occasionally by quantum mechanics.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline Bakegaku

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Mole Snacks: +20/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Hydrogen peroxide is my miracle cure to everything
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2006, 10:05:59 PM »
Isn't it possible to have a wave function of two severed volumes?  I don't think this would be splitting an electron at all, really.
"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing"
-Socrates

"I see, I forget.  I hear, I remember.  I do, I understand"
-Confucius

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
- Albert Einstein?

"American cartoons place characters in situations; anime
places situations around characters.  Anime characters
are not like fictional characters but more like fictional
people; their actions stem directly from their personalities,
and not just as a means to move the story's plot
forward.  We are made to sympathize with them, and
not simply be entertained by them."
~John Oppliger~

Offline pantone159

  • Mole Herder
  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 492
  • Mole Snacks: +54/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • A mole of moles doesn't smell so nice...
    • Go Texas Soccer!!
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2006, 11:08:56 PM »
Splitting the wavefunction into disjoint pieces sounds conceivable, but that isn't splitting the electron.

The wavefunction describes the probability of finding the electron at each point (there is also a phase factor in there as well), but if you do an experiment to find the electron, it will be exactly at one point.  Which point you get depends on the probabilities.
So, if the wavefunction splits into two, e.g., then there is a 50-50 chance of finding it in each piece when you look, but no chance whatsoever of finding half of it in one piece and the other half in the other.

Similarly, when you have an electron in the 1s state, you DON'T have zillions of partial electrons distributed around the region where the wavefunction goes, you have ONE electron which might be at any point in that region.

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27736
  • Mole Snacks: +1804/-411
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2006, 02:33:56 AM »
Splitting the wavefunction into disjoint pieces sounds conceivable, but that isn't splitting the electron.

Exactly my point, perhaps better wording :)

Quote
So, if the wavefunction splits into two, e.g., then there is a 50-50 chance of finding it in each piece when you look, but no chance whatsoever of finding half of it in one piece and the other half in the other.

Thing is - I have never found in the description of the experiments whether bubbles carry half charge or not. They can arrive at target with different speeds when the bubbles are smaller, but it doesn't mean they were really split.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline constant thinker

  • mad scientist
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1275
  • Mole Snacks: +85/-45
  • Gender: Male
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2006, 09:02:23 PM »
The world of Quantum Mechanics..

I gave up on it awhile ago. It's complicated. I'll start reading up on it when I'm older.
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' " -Ronald Reagan

"I'm for anything that gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers, or a bottle of Jack Daniels." -Frank Sinatra

Offline Plutonium

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2012, 12:13:59 AM »
The electron is a point particle and therefore can not be split.  However, this has interesting implications.  If you could somehow "touch" an electron, Einstein's inverse-square law (1/r2) would require infinite gravity and that time come to a stop.

Offline Shadow

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 227
  • Mole Snacks: +5/-11
Re: Electron Splitting
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2012, 07:31:29 AM »
That is the theory of relativity. They were talking here about quantum mechanics.

Sponsored Links