May 07, 2021, 09:54:13 PM
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Topic: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility  (Read 1037 times)

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Offline whitecoatblackhat

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2021, 11:36:35 PM »
So its hair-loss we are talking about?
https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/9269/androgenetic-alopecia

I really wonder if adenosine is better than Minoxidil etc. This is a well studied problem, I think you will have more luck with the standard treatment even though it is expensive.

Yes, I've been studying the pathology of androgenic alopecia for 5+ years.

I've researched minoxidil extensively. It's an old, palaeolithic drug that comes with a myriad of side-effects, ranging from mild to life-threatening.

That's why we're researching other potential topical hair growth agonists, that have at least some merit.

One such is adenosine.

Thanks!

Offline rolnor

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2021, 12:45:16 AM »
If you are this serious in your work it is surprising that you not have checked the patent literature before posting you question here, are you doing this proffessionally or more as a hobby? Minoxidil does not help everybody with hair-loss but I can bet some money that it is more efficient than adenosin, do you have a reference supporting that adenosin is better than minoxidil?

Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2021, 10:36:49 AM »
This is a bit of a tangent, but I would not use a mineral acid in an attempt to increase solubility for almost any application.  One will hydrolyze the N-glycosidic bond.

Offline whitecoatblackhat

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2021, 10:19:53 AM »
If you are this serious in your work it is surprising that you not have checked the patent literature before posting you question here, are you doing this proffessionally or more as a hobby? Minoxidil does not help everybody with hair-loss but I can bet some money that it is more efficient than adenosin, do you have a reference supporting that adenosin is better than minoxidil?

I'm doing this professionally.

I never said that adenosine is better and more effective than minoxidil. Please, show me where I've said that.

Minoxidil is the most powerful hair growth agonist on the market today. That's non-negotiable.

It's by far stronger than adenosine.

However, there are a plethora of side-effects that come with minoxidil, ranging from surface-level side effects to life-threatening ones.

And many people avoid using it because of that.

For this reason, we're looking to develop some other topical hair agonists that don't necessarily rival minoxidil in terms of potency but at least yield some noticeable results whilst having a far better side-effect profile.

Therefore, giving people more choice when it comes to picking a product that stimulates hair growth.

Minoxidil is palaeolithic and we need more innovation in this field.




Offline whitecoatblackhat

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2021, 10:20:49 AM »
This is a bit of a tangent, but I would not use a mineral acid in an attempt to increase solubility for almost any application.  One will hydrolyze the N-glycosidic bond.

Interesting! That's great advice! I'll look further into this.

Thanks!!

Offline rolnor

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2021, 12:46:09 PM »
Whitecoat, I am sorry, I jumped to conclusion. How do you test your compounds, do you use some animal-model?
Its a bit confusing because Minoxidil does not work for all, so if you have something (like adenosine) thats even less efficient, how do you measure the effect?

Offline rolnor

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2021, 02:36:54 PM »
I am wondering, how can Minoxidil be so toxic? Its an overthecounter drug?

Offline MOTOBALL

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2021, 06:21:18 PM »
Are there any non-toxic ionic liquids?

Regards,
Motoball

Offline MOTOBALL

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2021, 10:55:14 PM »
Whitecoat,

Have you seen the use of solid dispersions of a a drug with e.g. sucrose to enhance aqueous solubility of an API?

Also, use amorphous rather than crystalline adenosine.

Regards,
Motoball

Offline whitecoatblackhat

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2021, 03:59:50 AM »
Whitecoat, I am sorry, I jumped to conclusion. How do you test your compounds, do you use some animal-model?
Its a bit confusing because Minoxidil does not work for all, so if you have something (like adenosine) thats even less efficient, how do you measure the effect?

No problems, we're doing very small-scale in vitro testing and it isn't as comprehensive as the previous studies done on adenosine:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24183218/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26508659/

I would like us to get a phototrichogram in the very near future to produce the most accurate assessments possible.

But for now, we're just using generic camera photos.

I believe one of the factors for adenosine being less efficient than minoxidil is its poor solubility.

Minoxidil 5% beats adenosine 0.75% every single time.

But if you compound a Minoxidil 0.75% solution, it's not gonna be that much better than 0.75% adenosine.

That's why I'm trying to find a way to increase the concentration of adenosine to at least 2% and see if that's comparable to 2% minoxidil.


Offline whitecoatblackhat

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2021, 04:10:38 AM »
I am wondering, how can Minoxidil be so toxic? Its an overthecounter drug?

I never said minoxidil is toxic. I just said that it has a plethora of side effects.

Minoxidil was first compounded as an anti-hypertensive drug known as Loniten.

And the hypertrichosis was actually a side-effect of oral minoxidil.

So, then the researchers decided to create a topical form of minoxidil and see if that can have a localised hair growing effect while minimising the systemic side effects.

To this day, it's not fully understood how minoxidil actually promotes hair growth. It could be a mixture of vasodilation, potassium channel opening, PGE2 upregulation and even having a very mild anti-androgenic effect.

Minoxidil isn't toxic, the side effects are due to the drug going systemic for some individuals.

It is a small molecule with a low molecular weight (~209 daltons).

Therefore, it can easily go systemic for some people.



 


Offline whitecoatblackhat

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2021, 04:18:54 AM »
Whitecoat,

Have you seen the use of solid dispersions of a drug with e.g. sucrose to enhance aqueous solubility of an API?

Also, use amorphous rather than crystalline adenosine.

Regards,
Motoball

That's what I'm looking for as well, i.e. non-toxic ionic liquids.

Unfortunately, my manufacturer only sells crystalline adenosine.

I'm on the lookout for other versions.

I haven't heard of enhancing the aqueous solubility of an API with things like surcose.

But this is really piquing my interest and I'll look further into it.

Things like sucrose are rather benign and could be easily added to hair topicals.

Very cool piece of info! Thanks so much for that!




Offline rolnor

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2021, 08:58:25 AM »
Interesting, I still dont see how this can be a non-prescription drug if some get so severe side-effects? I have hever seen any warnings or debate in media about this?

Offline whitecoatblackhat

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Re: Adenosine (Pure Anhydrous) Solubility
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2021, 03:50:36 PM »
Interesting, I still dont see how this can be a non-prescription drug if some get so severe side-effects? I have hever seen any warnings or debate in media about this?

Only a few percent of people get severe side effects from minoxidil.

But it's such a widely-used drug that a few percent out of 200 million total users is still plenty of people who get major side effects.

The internet is riddled with anecdotes of people getting heart palpitations, dangerously low blood pressure, drastically increased resting heart rate, edema and more.

Which is what minoxidil was made to do. It's a vasodilator / anti-hypertensive drug.

Therefore, if you have normal or low blood pressure and you use topical minoxidil but a large chunk of that goes systemic, you'll experience these vasodilatory effects and you'll blood pressure will drop even more.

There are many other drugs on the market that have severe side-effects and nobody cares about that.

But at the end of the day, minoxidil helps millions of people and is an extremely potent hair growth stimulant.

I just want to give people more options to choose from.

That's why we're studying adenosine because it does hold some merit.




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