October 21, 2021, 08:06:00 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!  (Read 3189 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TRS71

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Hi, I'm looking to duplicate or brew a close facsimile of a gardening supply of Liquid Bone Meal- from Nectar for The Gods Herculean Harvest.

I can buy bulk bonemeal for under $1 a pound, the store-bought liquid is $40 a gallon. I know I'm paying $39 for water. If I was using 1/2 a cup that's one thing, but according to their feed chart, I'd need over a 1/2 gallon weekly!

  In the video, they mention how they make it. I pulverized the meal to a bag of dust, but then they add an acid, hydrolyze it, and add a protein-At the least.
 
 How do I do that at home?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44rGNoT_2Ik&t=4m12s


 Can someone give me the info on how to make a liquid bone meal and doses for my Hydroponic garden? TIA!!  :)

Offline pcm81

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Mole Snacks: +9/-3
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2021, 10:52:21 AM »
You are mixing things up.
Bone meal is slow source of calcium for use in the soil.
Liquid bone meal is a fast source of calcium in the soil.

Hydroponics solutions like from General Hydroponics are special mixtures that do not rely on bacteria to digest the calcium phosphate. Calcium phosphate is not soluble in water (very little solubility) so you cant use raw calcium phosphate in hydroponics.

Offline TRS71

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2021, 02:37:41 PM »
 I know it doesnt disolve, thats why I mentiomed hydrolise it, add acid, etc. how do i make it?

Offline Orcio_Dojek

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Mole Snacks: +29/-2
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2021, 02:57:15 PM »
@TRS71

You will need strong acid like 35 % HCl to dissolve calcium phosphorate:

Ca3(PO4)2 + 6 HCl ----> 3 CaCl2 + 2 H3PO4

This will yield an easy source of calcium and phosphorus for plants, besides lowering pH of the soil (it will harm plants).

You will need the "protein" which you wrote earlier, as it probably is used to bind H3PO4 and prevent formation of residue.

Online Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26794
  • Mole Snacks: +1737/-403
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2021, 05:35:36 PM »
This will yield an easy source of calcium and phosphorus for plants, besides lowering pH of the soil (it will harm plants).

You will get the precipitate back the moment you dilute or neutralize the solution.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info, pH-meter.info

Offline TRS71

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2021, 12:43:48 PM »
@TRS71

You will need strong acid like 35 % HCl to dissolve calcium phosphorate:

Ca3(PO4)2 + 6 HCl ----> 3 CaCl2 + 2 H3PO4

This will yield an easy source of calcium and phosphorus for plants, besides lowering pH of the soil (it will harm plants).

You will need the "protein" which you wrote earlier, as it probably is used to bind H3PO4 and prevent formation of residue.

Cool, I can buy a gallon of 35% no problem~What do I do for the binding protein?

Also whats the ratio of bone meal to a gallon.

I've had no chemistry in 25 years, and I blew through those cells an eon ago...
If I get a "recipe" for liquid bonemeal, I know a LOT of people will be overjoyed! THANKS!

Offline Orcio_Dojek

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Mole Snacks: +29/-2
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2021, 05:14:29 PM »
I found that "CaCl(H2PO4) is higly soluble in the water".

Bone meal cointains Ca10(PO4)6(OH)2 and Ca3(PO4)2:

Ca10(PO4)6(OH)2 + 14 HCl ----> 6 Ca(H2PO4)Cl + 4 CaCl2 + 2 H2O

Ca3(PO4)2 + 4 HCl ---> 2 Ca(H2PO4)Cl + CaCl2

This means you will need from 115 to 124 ml 35 % HCl for every 100 g of bone meal.

But in practice (H2PO4)- is stable around ph about 5, so you need to bring pH to that level.

I suggest using bromothymol blue or bromocresol purple as they turns yellow at pH below 6.


Is Ca(H2PO4)Cl really that soluble - I don't know, beacause formation of Ca(H2PO4)2 is also possible.

About binding calcium or phospate with a protein - I don't know what protein they are using. Maybe some of the milk proteins ?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 05:59:53 PM by Orcio_Dojek »

Offline TRS71

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2021, 11:00:00 AM »
 Any recommendations on a protein? I don't need a 1:1 exact copy, just a working mix.

 Im not sure what the protein is added for even. Stopping the formation of residue sounds feasible, even store-bought liquid meal leaves a sludge.

 I can leave it in a "brew bag" so it won't gum up the pump. I just need the plants to be able to "drink" it... There are going to be a LOT of happy hydo farmers if I get one correct mix down.

 There are recipes just boiling bones, but I doubt their actual effectiveness.,

Offline TRS71

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2021, 11:05:20 AM »
 Oh yea. Also, they say to have to water at 6.0 ph exactly before adding herculean harvest bone meal. 1st time I saw directions that exact. Must have to do with absorption?

Offline Orcio_Dojek

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Mole Snacks: +29/-2
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2021, 07:35:10 AM »
Quote
Any recommendations on a protein? I don't need a 1:1 exact copy, just a working mix.
I suggest using milk proteins (milk) as it has some ability to bind calcium phosphates.

Quote
Oh yea. Also, they say to have to water at 6.0 ph exactly before adding herculean harvest bone meal. 1st time I saw directions that exact. Must have to do with absorption?
pH is needed to maintain H2PO4-, not HPO42- or something else (Ca(H2PO4)Cl is said to be so soluble).

Offline TRS71

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2021, 11:48:34 AM »
Will milk protein have an odor at all? Or if I use milk, how much are we talking in 125 gal of water? 2 weeks max before change.

Offline Orcio_Dojek

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Mole Snacks: +29/-2
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2021, 02:20:51 PM »
@TRS71 Fresh milk doesn't stink, but will go bad in 1- 2 days in 20 C.

As of proportion - you must deduce for yourself - does it even help in dissolving.

Offline TRS71

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2021, 11:04:47 PM »
How about powdered milk? Will that go bad?

Offline Orcio_Dojek

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Mole Snacks: +29/-2
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2021, 06:33:31 AM »
Yes, it will go bad same as the normal milk.

Offline TRS71

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help me duplicate a gardening supplement- Liquid Bone Meal!
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2021, 05:38:06 AM »
 Well is there something besides milk that won't rot? I'm thinking milk-type proteins out, and not sure what the heck it's for even?

What about an amino acid protein fertilizer? https://smile.amazon.com/Safer-Brand-Truamino-Nutrient-Solution/dp/B01CKLLOQU?sa-no-redirect=1


  I'll see if I can find out why it is included - Thanks for the help so far...:)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 05:53:22 AM by TRS71 »

Sponsored Links