October 17, 2021, 10:13:05 PM
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Topic: Noob question: Does that molecule match to this "chemical description"?  (Read 249 times)

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Offline dodopik416

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I'm not a chemist so I have no idea about chemistry, but I'm living in a country where some chems are regulated by a "chemistry laws" (some are completely banned and some only need taxation).

I tried my best to translate it, but keep in mind I'm not a native English speaker nor a chemist:

Quote
Any substance whose structure is derived from indole, regardless of the substitution of another carbon atom of the indole structure by a nitrogen atom, by substitution:



  • on the nitrogen atom (position 1) with alkyl, alkenyl, aryl or heterocyclic structures with at least 3 carbon atoms; and additionally
  • at position 3 of the indole by a carbonyl, carboxylic acid ester or carboxamide structure, which is further substituted in any way and to any extent and can be fused to the indole structure

These structures can be substituted at positions 2, 4, 5, 6 and 7 of the indole structure in any manner and to any extent.

The chemical molecule I'm interested in buying is this one:

O=C(N[C@H](C(N)=O)C(C)(C)C)C1=NN(CCCC)C2=C1C=CC=C2<br />

Code: [Select]
(S)-N-(1-amino-3,3-dimethyl-1-oxobutan-2-yl)-1-butyl-1H-indazole-3-carboxamide

As far as I can tell this chemical should be completely legal in my country because it doesn't match with the chemical description of the law, right :S?

It should be legal because its based on indazol and not on indol, right :S?

And of course, don't worry I don't take it with 100% garantuee what people on onlne forums say but I would appreciate it if a chemist could tell me what he thinks.



Offline rolnor

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Re: Noob question: Does that molecule match to this "chemical description"?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2021, 11:03:49 AM »
I think you are correct, it should be legal. Very strange law forbiding these indoles, I dont see why, they are not drugs as far as I can see? Maybe they are derivatives of tryptamine? Like these:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25877327/

Offline mjc123

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Re: Noob question: Does that molecule match to this "chemical description"?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2021, 11:28:49 AM »
I disagree; it does come within the description, because that says "regardless of the substitution of another carbon atom of the indole structure by a nitrogen atom". So although C2 is replaced by N, it still counts.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Noob question: Does that molecule match to this "chemical description"?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2021, 11:41:52 AM »
The moderators did receive a report as follows

I found a similar molecule that is Schedule I in the U.S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AB-CHMINACA

Offline dodopik416

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Re: Noob question: Does that molecule match to this "chemical description"?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2021, 12:02:38 PM »
I disagree; it does come within the description, because that says "regardless of the substitution of another carbon atom of the indole structure by a nitrogen atom". So although C2 is replaced by N, it still counts.

Thank you for your detailed answer.
This is what I heard so far from 3 different chemists (out of 4) so I guess its illegal.

@rolnor

And no its not a drug but an insecticide ;) Thats what I'm interested in. It keeps insects away without killing them - very important if you have bees in you area.

But as far as I know - take it with a grant of salt - its a Chinese mimica of Pfizers ADB-FUBINACA which was originally developed to prevent/heal cancer but had no effects on humans (but on mices).

Anyway thanks guys, I guess it doesn't hurt to learn a bit about chemistry.

@billnotgatez

There are thousands if not millions of different synthetic cannabinoids available, most of them have 0 effect - basically don't do anything, some of them are basically just withdrawal symptoms, some can be used as medicine eg. treating Anorexia and of course a lot of them are abused.

They have not much to do with cannabis (yes CBD and THC itself is also a cannabinoid): Most of the cannabinoids available on the market are basically worse than crack. I'm not kidding you: Crack is compared to "noids" like comparing a paper airplane with jumbo jet.

Edit: I just wanted to say that basically THC and CBD are also just insecticides (at least thats why the plant is producing them).
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 12:18:41 PM by dodopik416 »

Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: Noob question: Does that molecule match to this "chemical description"?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2021, 12:21:31 PM »
https://www.trc-canada.com/product-detail/?A558240
Toronto Research Chemicals wrote, "ADB-Butinaca is a cannabinoid designer drug that is an ingredient in some synthetic cannabis products. It is a potent agonist of the CB1 receptor and CB2 receptor with EC50 values of 0.52 nM and 0.88 nM respectively. This product is intended for research and forensic applications."

Offline dodopik416

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Re: Noob question: Does that molecule match to this "chemical description"?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2021, 01:57:38 PM »
@babcok_hall

First: It was never used in any legal high products (probably because it came after the "analog ban" and it's somehow new) . But I'm pretty sure its an abused substance and probably sprayed on cheap cbd weed and resold as real weed (shocker, weed ain't real? Oh you would go crazy if you knew that almost all drugs got already replaced with "legal" analogs and people get ripped off when they buy it for those high prices).

Second: Those prices are ripoff, 5mg for over 100$? You can get that stuff from spanish and dutch resellers for like 1$/g and you can get from China 1kg for max. 300$ (shipping included). I never checked India but I'm sure its even cheaper than in China.

Anyway let's be real here: Yes it is a good insecticide (tested it myself and it will keep mosquitos away) but as you probably guessed it's not why I'm looking for it ;)

Where I live there are no traditional drugs anymore:

Cocaine got replaced by legal benzo cocaines (eg. Methylenedioxypyrovalerone)

Heroin got replaced by some fentanyl analogs.

XTC got replaced by Methylone, 3-MMC and other mixtures.

DMT, LSD got their own derivatives.

And sadly our good old weed got replaced by noids. They buy cheap cbd budz for less than 1$/g and sell it to you for above 10$/g (each gram has max 1-2mg of the synthethic noids on it). They do it because its less risky to smuggle 1g. And 1kg CBD-Weed is legal anyway.

Only education can beat the war against drugs.

If more people knew that they basically get cheated and that their drugs are actually legal analogs, they would stop buy it for those ridiculous high prices. You get those noids for less than 1$/g which have 500 - 10'000 dosages per gram - depends on the noid eg. THC has "only" 50-100 dosages per gram.

There is a good vice documentary about it: "Why are drugs so expensive?". The only reason this works is because people don't know how they get cheated.


Offline Borek

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Re: Noob question: Does that molecule match to this "chemical description"?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2021, 02:02:54 PM »
I believe the thread has run its course, you got the answer you were looking for.

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