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Offline NYM

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Buffer solution
« on: December 10, 2006, 08:24:20 AM »
0,0500 M HCOOH (aq), pH = 2,54 at 25 *C

1) Find the "dissociation thingy" (don't know what it is called in English), the propotion between HCOOH and CHOO-, called alpha:
alpha = 10-2,54/0,0500M = 5,8%

2) Find Ka:
Ostwald's dilution law: Ka = cA * alpha2/(1-alpha) = 1,77*10-4
 or pKa = 3,75

3) 4,08 g of HCOONa is added to 1 L of the solution, V is approximately constant.
Find pH.
n(HCOONa) = 7,15*10-2 mole + 10-2,54 mole = 7,44*10-2 mole
n(HCOOH) = 0,0500 mole - 10-2,54 mole =4,71*10-2 mole
since V = 1 L.
Then I use the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation..

4) 40 mL of 1 M HCl is added to the solution, find pH.
n(HCl) = 4*10-2 mole and therefore
n(HCOOH) = 4,71*10-2 mole  - 4*10-2 mole = 0,71*10-2 mole
and
n(HCOONa) = 4,71*10-2 mole + 7,44*10-2 mole = "something"
And then I just use the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation.

Is this correct?

Then I thought... what if n(HCl) > n(HCOOH)? How do I calculate pH then?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 08:37:17 AM by NYM »

Offline Borek

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Re: Buffer solution
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2006, 08:40:14 AM »
"dissociation thingy"

dissociation percentage or dissociation fraction, see introduction to acid/base equilibrium

Quote
5,8% (...) pKa = 3,75

Both OK.

Quote
n(HCOONa) = 7,15*10-2 mole + 10-2,54 mole = 7,44*10-2 mole
n(HCOOH) = 0,0500 mole - 10-2,54 mole =4,71*10-2 mole
since V = 1 L.

Nope. Adding HCOO- you move equilibrium of the dissociation reaction of the acid to the left so you can't assume it becomes summed with the HCOO- from the acid dissociation. Plus, HCOO- added gets hydrolized - it is not-so weak conjugated base. The easiest approach is to assume HCOOH concentration from the original acid and HCOO- from salt added. See pH of buffers.

Quote
n(HCOOH) = 4,71*10-2 mole  - 4*10-2 mole = 0,71*10-2 mole

Do I read correctly that you are neutralizing HCOOH with HCl? Acid with acid?

Quote
Then I thought... what if n(HCl) > n(HCOOH)? How do I calculate pH then?

Simple - pH is determined by excess hydrochloric acid.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline NYM

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Re: Buffer solution
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2006, 09:07:31 AM »

dissociation percentage or dissociation fraction, see introduction to acid/base equilibrium
Ah, okay. I couldn't find it on Wiki.


Quote
Nope. Adding HCOO- you move equilibrium of the dissociation reaction of the acid to the left so you can't assume it becomes summed with the HCOO- from the acid dissociation. Plus, HCOO- added gets hydrolized - it is not-so weak conjugated base. The easiest approach is to assume HCOOH concentration from the original acid and HCOO- from salt added. See pH of buffers.
Okay, but is there any way to calculate the exact pH?

Quote

Do I read correctly that you are neutralizing HCOOH with HCl? Acid with acid?
Oh yeah, I messed that one up. Anyhow, it's the same, just the other way around:
n(HCl) = 4*10-2 mole and therefore
n(HCOOH) = 4,71*10-2 mole  + 4*10-2 mole = something
and
n(HCOONa) = 7,16*10-2 mole - 4*10-2 mole  = "something"



Quote
Simple - pH is determined by excess hydrochloric acid.
Of course :)

Thanks.
Quote

Offline Borek

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Re: Buffer solution
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2006, 12:13:28 PM »
Okay, but is there any way to calculate the exact pH?

Browse pH calculation lectures at ChemBuddy. There is no simple, bulletproof method.

Quote
Oh yeah, I messed that one up. Anyhow, it's the same, just the other way around:
n(HCl) = 4*10-2 mole and therefore
n(HCOOH) = 4,71*10-2 mole  + 4*10-2 mole = something
and
n(HCOONa) = 7,16*10-2 mole - 4*10-2 mole  = "something"

Almost OK - the idea is correct, but you are using numbers that you have found in the previous step - and they are wrong.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline NYM

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Re: Buffer solution
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2006, 12:54:29 PM »
Yeah, I corrected the whole assignment now :)


Browse pH calculation lectures at ChemBuddy. There is no simple, bulletproof method.


Nice website :)
Hmm, I thought about something with

n(CHOOH) = 10-2,54 + x
n(HCOONa) = 0,0715 - x
n(H3O+) = 0,0715 - x

And then I use Ka and write the expression for the acid dissociation constant:

Ka = (0,0715 - x)2/10-2,54 + x
which yields a quadratic equation.

No/Yes?


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