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Topic: Spectroscopy problem  (Read 9010 times)

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Offline gibbeenrgy

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Spectroscopy problem
« on: March 14, 2007, 12:04:42 AM »
I copied this problem from my friend and tried to solved it. However, after 3 days , I still have no idea. So, I decided to post it here. Any helps are always appreciated .


Edit: I have uploaded it again. You can double click on the image to make it bigger. Sorry for the small size image.
BTW, this problem is really really interesting. I spend so much time on drawing tree diagram, trying almost possible structure but still can't obtain the result. I think the formula will have 3 C-N . :D
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 02:20:49 AM by gibbeenrgy »

Offline Ψ×Ψ

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 01:20:10 AM »
Sorry, but I totally can't see it in a decent enough size for me to offer any suggestions.  (Apart from "larger image, please.")

Offline movies

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 12:10:37 PM »
There is no way those expansions came from that NMR spectrum.

Offline Dolphinsiu

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 12:33:09 PM »
By Rule of Thirteen, MWt = 121/13 = 9 + 4/13

Base formula = C9H13

As MWt is odd, then implies at least one N's, Molecular formula becomes C8H11N
DBE (Double bond equivalent) = [2( 8 ) + 2 - 11 + 1] / 2 = 4
As peak > 3000, this confirms it contains unsaturated =C-H STR
As no peak around 3500-3200cm-1 in IR, tertiary amine is possible! -N(CH3)2

Molecular formula left = C6H5

Obviously, I will predict it is Ph - N(CH3)2



« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 12:43:22 PM by Dolphinsiu »

Offline movies

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 12:41:27 PM »
The mass would be too high and you would have too many peaks in the 13C NMR.

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 03:23:28 PM »
Okay, you chaged it so the mass is close, but you would still see more than three peaks in the 13C NMR if it was N,N-dimethylaniline.

Offline gibbeenrgy

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2007, 04:22:06 PM »
    As for the H NMR , the compound should have something likes (CH2 CH CH2) group, because of the pattern splitting , I draw the tree diagram and confirm that.
    Up until this morning, I think that I intepret the IR peak 1200 as 3 C- N , it may be wrong because the possible structure is not fitted with MW = 121 .
   The exist of Benzyl ring is not possible , I believe so b/c of the NMR at 6.0

Offline Dolphinsiu

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2007, 06:42:49 AM »
I have not learnt 13C NMR, so I cannot help you!

Offline gibbeenrgy

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2007, 08:29:26 PM »
Ha ha. I just figurout it this morning. It is actually Allyl bromide (C3H5Br )
An interesting problem indeed.
BTW, you can check it by ChemExper website . The link is here: http://www.chemexper.com/

Offline Custos

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 02:00:20 AM »
Looks right. A mass spectrum, which would show the 1:1 isotope ratio for bromine, would have made the problem much easier. It just shows that mass spec can be useful and nmr doesn't always tell all.  ;)

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007, 03:34:51 AM »
Heh, that's what I thought it was.  The NMR splitting just doesn't look right in the expansions though.

Offline Custos

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Re: Spectroscopy problem
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2007, 06:52:06 PM »
It's not a real spectrum - probably calculated or even just stylized for the problem. The methylene would be a doublet (with fine structure from allylic coupling), the terminal protons would both be doublets of doublets (again possibly with some fine structure) and the internal vinyl proton will be a doublet doublet triplet - but of course you would expect overlap, not cleanly separated as shown in the problem. If you do the simulated pmr in ChemDraw that proton looks like this.

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