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Offline Juan R.

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Final status of the program and center
« on: December 10, 2004, 12:53:57 PM »

I’m sorry; all attempts to launch the canonical science program in Spain have been rejected or ignored. I include some examples for illustrations and because often people think that I say would be “impossible” in Spain because it is a European country.

1) Possibilities for obtaining economical support from Spain government: Zero.

Support is only provided to specific archaic (?) programs and people with predetermined curriculums. The rest of pleas are ignored, including European recommendations! An example:

Bosch, Xavier. Spanish Science Taking the Slow Boat? Science 2003, 302, p.209.

2) Possibilities for continuing the research in official scientific institutions: Zero.

There is not money. Moreover, people from University of Vigo are being dismissed. According to some reports, the dismissed is massive! See for example:

“DESPEDIMENTOS SILENCIOSOS NA UNIVERSIDADE DE VIGO (Sorry only in galego. It offers specific data). Available in CIG’s website”

Possibilities for founding an adequate research center in Spain: Zero.

Bureaucracy is extremely rigid and does not provide to me the assistance necessary.

The more recent “external” discussion of status of Spanish science was published in Nature 2004, 432, 488-489.

Fortunately, the report says many things that I said during the last months, e.g. “Traditionally, Spain has been a difficult place to start a career in science”.

Possibilities for founding a private research center in Spain with advanced characteristics: Close to zero.

Spanish laws about “sociedades limitadas” are clearly insufficient and are extremely costly. European community recommended to Spanish government the change in legislation because previous legislation was restrictive when compared with the rest of community. Which was the government reply? The introduction of the new figure of “sociedad limitada nueva empresa (SLNE)” specially focused (in theory) for centers and companies, devoted to “new technologies”, which need a new open regime. Spanish’s expertises have claimed that the new legislation is technically deficient and even more restrictive that previous legislation! Now is poor!!

Many expertises have recommended to me does not follow the new legislation of SLNE.

Possibilities for obtaining money from an electronic journal with downloaded articles (the usual model in scientific publication): Close to zero.

There are a number of legal and economical problems. For example it is necessary a previous inversion close to 3000 euros ($ 3900) for the web site, more usual taxes 250 euros per month more 16% IVA more 20 % of IRPF more the taxes of the “Colegio químicos”, more an elevated cost of hosting (around 70 euros per month) more...

Moreover there are additional problems with other requirements: ISSN for publications, internet domain registers, legal responsibility, copyright of electronic works published in English, etc.

For example, imagine that I publish a manual on chemical thermodynamics. Xunta’s legislation oblige to me to translate it before obtaining the copyright status. This is stupid, because English is the official language of science! Moreover it oblige to me to work the double! I do not include here the taxes for obtaining the corresponding copyright after translation...

“Ok Juan. Perhaps you could “highlight your mind” for obtaining a ground-breaking approach to those legal problems.”

Ok, I could look for it with the help of specialists in those topics, but then I solicit a TPV in a bank and I read in the documentation that if there is some fraud in the internet site I am the only responsible (even if is caused by a electronic pirate from other country) and I would pay from my money all possible damages! Spanish associations for electronic transactions have claimed that this is a clear abuse from many banks.

Then I begin my investigation in “sociedades limitadas”, but there is a new legislation (2003) that do that the role of the administrator (i.e. Juan) is not clear and often the administrator would be the only responsible of problems caused by others!! None specialist have warranty to me that all my money and even the home of my mother would be away from bank objectives if there is a possible fraud in internet caused, for example, by a Russian pirate!

Yes, it is an injustice!!

Moreover the bank taxes for transactions are excessive!

Spanish access to Internet is very limited and some people say that ADSL is the more expensive and slowly of all Europe. A recent protest letter says that is close to the double of expensive!

See the letter “Banda ancha asequible para España ya!”

Somebody could say: “Hey guy ignore obtain some money for your research work. All scientific journals are not free but you would waste your money in research activities (note that journals do not pay to authors for the previous research activities) and after waste your time and money in offering free access to all of your work. Hey man, you cry because you need money for eating and living. There is not a problem; e.g. you always can eat air. Air is free in Spanish (by now!).”

Yes I could live with zero money, to pay all internet host and connection from my own money, buy expensive articles and monographs also, and just eat air, but even in this idyllic situation I need verify the ultra-rigid Spanish legislation about information and internet sites.


More about this (I include only some early English topics):

Kriptopolis: "Freedom of expression is in real danger now in Spain If the Electronic Commerce (Society of Information Services) Directive is approved, most websites that are not "properly" registered would be considered illegal and have to face enormous fees which will in fact paralyse their activity forever. This directive -ready to be approved in the Spanish Parliament any time- has invented the concept of "society of information services" and wants to legislate plain exchange of information as an economic activity, ruling out therefore, any publisher -like NGOs- which do not really perform any commercial activities and can not face all the legal and bureaucratic activities that the Electronic Commerce (Society of Information Services) Directive wants".

Spain's new rules drive Web sites off the Internet. Washington Times, 4 November 2002.

"Adios Amigos!" Washington Post, 30 October 2002.

Sites protest strict new Net law., 28 October 2002.

Spanish Net Law Sparks Protest. Wired News, 25 October 2002.

Web sites go blank to protest strict new Internet law,, 24 October 2002.

Controversial Spanish Internet Law Holds Lessons for Europe, Gartner, 18 October 2002

Spain Takes Inquisition Online. USC Annenberg / Online Journalism Review, 17 October 2002.


If you are interested in more specific information about those issues, you can contact with me at my e-mail.

For example, one of the directives of the new law “SLNE” for centers of “new technology” is so stupid as this. Imagine that there is three members; one, the administrator of the center, with a 60% of the vote, other with 30% and other with a 10%. The member with the 30% is not satisfied with administrator’s work in the center and begins the procedure for changing him/her in an official assembly. According to SLNE rules, the administrator cannot participate in the assembly and then a member with only a 30% of the society can dismissed to the current administrator because the other member has only a 10%. Then the 30%-member proposes a new administrator more efficient more intelligent, etc. The member proposes herself. Now there is a new assembly and now according to SLNE rules the previous administrator (now only member) can participate and vote, as he still has the 60% of vote choose himself as “new administrator”. Of course he is chosen by simple vote counting. Now the 30%-member could vote again for the substitution of the “new administrator” and “new administrator” would be dismissed, and again and again. Conclusion, the Center’s activities could be stopped indefinitely.

Other example, imagine that I offer you a collection of 10 articles by 100 euros. If you were a French student, you would pay 116 euros because there is an additional tax for Internet activities. Nevertheless, if the same collection is offered by a friend mine from USA, Mexico, or Japon, for example, then the cost is exactly 100 euros for that student. Of course, this violates the principle of neutrality of Internet transactions.


You could think that canonical site is formally available in USA and Spanish legislation is not applicable. How, how, how!!! I cite from Traducción de la EPIC's LSSI page:

“La ley puede también en algunos casos tener consecuencias perjudiciales en las publicaciones producidas en sitios Web de Estados Unidos si están dirigidas a una audiencia española.”

Before I can to have some problem, I eliminate all content and my name!!!

The first canonical scientist.

Offline Donaldson Tan

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Re:Final status of the program and center
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2004, 06:54:01 PM »
It sucks to be a scientist in Spain. Migrate to UK?
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline Mitch

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Re:Final status of the program and center
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2004, 09:08:51 PM »
Sorry to hear that, let us know if there is anything we can do.
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Offline Juan R.

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Re:Final status of the program and center
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2004, 09:25:50 AM »
Geodome, Mitch, thanks.

See for more details including some difficulties of last months.

However, the scientific research is fascinating. Many people (economist, chemical enginner, etc. contacted with me).

I solicited the launching of the center in other country.

I forgot to say that register of domain is not free. Moreover, I said that one is obligued to subscribe to Colegio de químicos and to post the id number in the web page. I forget say that the subsription is 130 euros. Etc, Etc.

If X is the annual cost of scientific research in canonical science. 2/3 X are buroucractic expenses!!!!!!!!

Please publicize the next link:

Vinton Cerf one of pather of internet is member of epic. (

The future is not written
The first canonical scientist.

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