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Topic: expression of the ideal gas constant (R)  (Read 6227 times)

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Offline Valeder

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expression of the ideal gas constant (R)
« on: April 15, 2007, 01:20:52 PM »
Hello

Today I was studying van't Hoff equation related to osmotic pressure, and I found that at the basis of this equation there is
the ideal gas law. Ok, but I don't understand the expression of the ideal gas constant, R.

I have looked on the book of Physiscs and I have found that its value is 8,318 J·mol^-1·K^-1.
On the book of chemistry I have found that its value is 0,082 L·atm·mol^-1·K^-1.

Then I have looked on the web and I have found that the ideal gas constant can be expressed in many ways, and these are two of them. But I wasn't happy, and so I tried to compare the equations of this values, but I still doesn't understand how they can express the same number with different units of measure  ???

Hence I saw the first equation (with joules) in basics units should be : kg ·m^2·s^-2·mol^-1·K^-1

The second one (with atm) in basics units should be : cm^3·g·cm^2·s^-2·cm^-2·mol^-1·K^-1

developing them, and removing values present in both we have:

cm^3·g=kg·m^2

I believe I do something (or even more than something  ;D) wrong, but I don't understand what  :'(

I will be very happy and thankful if anybody could help me.


Offline Borek

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Re: expression of the ideal gas constant (R)
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2007, 01:39:15 PM »
What is your pressure unit?

J·mol-1·K-1 = L·atm·mol-1·K-1
J = atm * L
work = pressure*volume
N*m = N/m2 * m3
N = N

(conversion factors neglected for obvious reasons)

Note that work = pressure*volume is the same as in W = PdV :)
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Offline Valeder

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Re: expression of the ideal gas constant (R)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 02:18:15 PM »
What is your pressure unit?

I was using atmospheres (atm). But I remember that 1 atm is: dyne per cm2


Quote
J·mol-1·K-1 = L·atm·mol-1·K-1
J = atm * L
work = pressure*volume
N*m = N/m2 * m3
N = N

(conversion factors neglected for obvious reasons)

Note that work = pressure*volume is the same as in W = PdV :)

Really thanks  :) Now I have understood the sense of it, and why they can be the same.

So if dyne per cm2 is atm.
dyne is a unit of measure of cgs system, it is g*cm*s-2, while Liter is a dm3.
a dm3 is 1000 cm3
Hence we should have

1000cm3*cm*cm-2*s-2*g=kg*m2*s-2

1000cm2*g=kg*m2

1000cm2 are 0,1 m2 so,

0,1m2*g=m2*kg

0,1g=kg

10-1g= 103*g

divided thorugh 10-1

g=104*g <-------------- O_O

but now?


Offline Borek

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Re: expression of the ideal gas constant (R)
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2007, 02:52:49 PM »
Pressure is - in general - force/surface.

Now you know units are OK. Don't bother with conversion factor - it is part of the numerical value of R.
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Offline Yggdrasil

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Re: expression of the ideal gas constant (R)
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2007, 04:15:39 PM »
I was using atmospheres (atm). But I remember that 1 atm is: dyne per cm2

1 atmosphere = 1,013,250 dynes per cm2 = 101.3 kPa = 101.3x103 N/m2.

Using this conversion you should see that the two values of R are in fact equivalent.

Offline Valeder

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Re: expression of the ideal gas constant (R)
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2007, 09:45:32 AM »
1 atmosphere = 1,013,250 dynes per cm2 = 101.3 kPa = 101.3x103 N/m2.

Using this conversion you should see that the two values of R are in fact equivalent.

Of course, I had confused bar (which is indeed dyne*cm-2) with atmosphere which isnùt a unit of measure of the cgs system but a pratical unit of measure.

So that:

101.300 Pa = 105 Pa = 105 N*m-2

8,2*10-2*105*N*m-2*10-3*m3*mol-1*K-1= 8,3 N*m*mol-1*K-1

then at left we have 105-3-2=100=1
semplifying moles and Kelvins

N*m-2*m3=N*m
N*m=N*m

and everything comes happily  :)

Solution: I must learn to read better the books and in particular not to skip or read fastly the unit of measure section  ::)

Thanks to everybody

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