March 28, 2024, 02:46:26 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Permanganate and Glycerine!  (Read 32923 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FinEvitable

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Permanganate and Glycerine!
« on: October 24, 2007, 10:33:59 AM »
Hi there!

I know the reaction with Potassium permanganate and glycerine is a very vigorous reaction, But i was wondering if it is energetic enough to create a supersonic gas explosion when put into a confined space? Like in pyrotechnics tubes for instance??
Ive experimented with perchlorates and nitrates for my home made rocket fuels and i was thinking of trying a permanganate fuel that i could just add a drop of glycerine too to ignite and hopefully propel the rocket, but i need to know that its not going to be too powerfull and blow my rocket casing to smithereens lol.

Thanks

Offline UnintentionalChaos

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 102
  • Mole Snacks: +9/-2
Re: Permanganate and Glycerine!
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 02:26:51 PM »
First of all, permanganate is the oxidizer not the fuel. Secondly, permanganate/fuel mixtures tend to be flash powders, and you will be making a pipe bomb, not a rocket engine. Thirdly, permanganate and glycerin form a hypergolic mixture and will ignite spontaneously and achieve extremely high temperatures. I fail to see how you would add the glycerin (if this is your sole fuel) to the permanganate.

Offline FinEvitable

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Permanganate and Glycerine!
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2007, 06:26:25 PM »
I was just curious wether using the glycerine could cause an explosion.  Ive only ever done it with a small pile of permanganate and a drop of glycerine, and the reaction took about 15 seconds before it initiated.  I always thought it would be too slow of a reaction to be used as a propelleant or an explosive.

Offline UnintentionalChaos

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 102
  • Mole Snacks: +9/-2
Re: Permanganate and Glycerine!
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2007, 03:41:15 AM »
Thats just an induction period. Imagine a whole tube full of it going off simultaneously. I don't think you'd have a tube left.  :P

Offline woelen

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 277
  • Mole Snacks: +40/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • The art of wondering makes life worth living...
    • Science made alive
Re: Permanganate and Glycerine!
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2007, 11:27:31 AM »
Permanganate as a solid oxidizer in pyrotechnic mixtures is very dangerous. I can be (and is) used in flash compositions, but not in slow-burning compositions, needed for rocketry. Stick to the nitrate/sugar mixes, these are slow-burning.
Want to wonder? See http://www.oelen.net/science

Offline hmx9123

  • Retired Staff
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 897
  • Mole Snacks: +59/-18
Re: Permanganate and Glycerine!
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2007, 05:25:04 AM »
Permanganate mixtures are known to be rather unstable.  They are highly energetic, and unpredictable.  As such, they are not widely employed in pyrotechnic use.  They are, unfortunately, used by amateurs who are uninformed as to the dangers of this material.  I would avoid using them for rockets.  Ignition time on them is difficult to gauge.  Much depends on particle size, humidity, temperature and a number of other variables.  The best thing to do is stick to potassium nitrate/sugar mixtures, as everyone else here has said.  If that's not good enough for you, go check out black powder rockets on the web.  There's plenty of info out there.

Offline FinEvitable

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Permanganate and Glycerine!
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2007, 10:01:07 AM »
Thanks for the help there!
I like experimenting with different pyrotechnic mixtures but its good to know which ones to stay clear of.
thanks for the advice!

Offline ARGOS++

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1489
  • Mole Snacks: +199/-56
  • Gender: Male
Re: Permanganate and Glycerine!
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2007, 08:06:00 AM »
Dear FinEvitable,

A very wise Idea!

I did it twice – the mixture Permanganate/Glycerine –, the worst of all: You never know when the Explosion starts ignited by itself, because it is very spontaneous! 


Good Luck!
                    ARGOS++
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 08:20:53 AM by ARGOS++ »

Sponsored Links